Flights in Brazil facts: Yes ThomsonFly do make one flight a week Thursdays from LGW to Natal, the price with all add ons is nearer £500 than £375 as you pay for your lunch etc and only the cheaper flights are really off season..go over Christmas and it could cost £600. More importantly their internet reservation system is spiked to only accept 14 or 7 day options, which is fine if that is what you want..I tried to book for 4/5/6 weeks and it rejected my reservation, saying "the flight doesn't operate on this day". But open another window and book a 7 or 14 day return for the same date and lo and behold, it does operate! I called Thomson and tried to book on the phone, they said they could do 4 weeks and would call me back..they didn't call! This in itself indicates how the flight prices are manipulated to Brazil by the one and only operator that goes to Natal! In terms of TAP, there isn't a flight after Dec 7th less than £800. Just un through thir online booking system and see. So all this wishful thinking about expansion is poppycock. If you read last UK's Sunday Times, an operator has applied for a low cost license to South Africa, for the first time in 10 years after liberation, and it is yet to be granted. This also bears out my assertion that this flight boom to Brazil is fantasy. Gol, here's another one, yes you can book on Gol, I have done it recently, not actually got a seat on the plane yet mind you! It was very laborious and I had difficulty registering and eventually had to go to their online help chat, which was very good in fairness. It now shows I have booked, but the charge took a week to appear on my credit card account..so don't book less than a week ahead! Also, I used an AMEX card which bills in US Dollars from Reis. A more logical option than pounds sterling.

Hi GW.

So basically;

a) you can't get a cheap flight to Brazil from the UK over Christmas
b) you don't like TAP
c) you don't like having to book more than a week ahead.

You keep moving the goal posts, hard to keep up.

Originally there were no flights at all over the next three months under 700 GBP.

Now there are, but there are none over the Christmas period and you have to book more than a week ahead. (Which doesn't seem to bad to me actually, I remember the days before "lastminute" flight reservations, as I'm sure you do too.)

If nothing else our friendly banter has just convinced me that Brasil is an even better investment destination than I originally knew, yet you seem to have convinced yourself otherwise.

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Yes, I work for a Real Estate company doing market research and analysis but I'm not involved in sales.

Have a nice day

Hi Mr Broad, a like your slant on it but I am not quite sure how somewhere you can't get to becomes a better investment than one that you can? Please run that one by me again! If you read the posts, someone said that Thomson are flying to Brazil for £375 which is partly true, yes they fly, but prices between November and April are nearer £500 when you add meals, taxes and a mickey mouse exit tax they try and charge you. Furthermore, if you want to go for more than 2 weeks, you can't, not wth Thomson anyway. As for TAP, it is not a case of liking nor disliking TAP it is a case of they are the only other real airline that can get you into Natal, unless you want to fly to Rio or Sao Paulo first and then 3.5 hours back to Natal, turning a 9 hour journey into a 13 hour journey. There is no other scheduled airline in the whole of Europe that goes to Natal direct..simple as that. As for GOL, what I said is it can be done online, but it is not easy and not without an Amex card and not wise to pre-book within 7 days, as your reservation may not go through. This has absolutely nothing to do with me not liking booking in advance..it is sensible first hand advice to travellers from someone who has first hand experience of their booking system. Now, if you go back to this original thread and dialogue, my point was that Natal and/or South America is the most difficult restrictive and pricey place in the world to get to from Europe and most of North America...there is absolutely no doubt that this is proven. The counter argument is that it will open up and it will be easier in the future due to a new airport in Natal. I pointed out that SA still hasn't opened up 12 years on, so the "wishful thinking" for NE Brazil is not justified. The matter is simple, if flights and communications are not relevant to a property boom in that region, then why do all the developers and agents want to emphasise the new airport? You can't have your cake and eat it...don't sell on the back a a perceived liberation in flights and prices then try a new slant on the argument when your claims are nowhere near proven, be it now or in the future. The long and the short of it is that aviation in Brazil and the relevant connections are difficult, impractical, expensive, laborious and unreliable (at present) and likely for years to come. The"Costas" and many regions, such as France only had a property "boom" due to simple, cheap and easy flight connections and only really happened when these connections actually existed. What is happening in Brazil is that is is being "claimed" that the same thing will occur again and so it is a good time to buy. My entire point is that this is not true, it is a wildly optimistic claim and "let the buyer beware". Only last week I had dinner with a senior executive of a low cost airline who told me "we will never go there", why, because they have so much to go at in Europe there is no need to expand into risky and unprofitable horizons. The same will happen for many other airlines and only a few charter and some scheduled carriers will go and even then it will take years. There is a great deal of complete nonsense being talked about NE Brazil and quite frankly anybody who has not considered at least 3 visits there first, has not researched flights, local banking residency laws and started to understand the culture, would be out of their mind to believe the rubbish that is being used as hype to sell off plan properties in that region. I have only spoken to one developer on here that seems honest, realistic and practical and has also outlined the banking/admin difficultes. I have spoken to at least 30 others, both from here and in general, less than 10% of those have ever been to Brazil themselves, only 1 has actually managed to take me and show me a site and he was Brazilian. All I can say is if there are professionals out there they will shine through. To date I am having difficulty finding one!

Hi Giraffe,

We are still in Brazil and are still looking at sites and plans. We have covered the North side of Natal (including Ma Noa Park) and the South, and are now off to Salvador to look at some interesting developments down there.

Is diving the big priority for you? I ask this as some areas are a lot better than others and you need to balance this out with your rental and capital appreciation requirements.

Regards,
Rob

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hi Rob,

i am currently hanging back on buying abroad right now, since my personal circumstances in the UK are a little too fluid now...(not sure how long i will continue to rent this property, or move in few months, rent or buy in UK). If I buy in UK will affect my budget, so I am now just keeping a steady eye on the market, continuing my research, etc. but very unsure of my next move. also, previous posts have caused me concern (yes, mr golfingworld is probably not your best friend right now). he might be negative about everything, but as a cautious investor, i think he does have a point.
I'm still considering egypt. either way, diving has to be an option, particularly important is that it is peaceful, and i can make some money off it, easily sellable, rental and management option, not too far from airport, etc. all the usual stuff.
sorry if this post is a bit woolly, bit of a standstill at moment, dont want to rush.
thanks

Hi all,

Recent article found!

Travel in Latin America: Cheaper and Easier
30 April 2007
Travel to Latin America has been on the upswing as countries there look to tourism for economic growth, and tour operators in the United States and Canada offer exotic vacations to the south. But until recently, getting around within Latin America — even in popular countries like Mexico — was a hassle often involving multiple plane changes or long bus rides over rough roads.

Now, thanks to an increase in low-cost airlines in Brazil and Mexico, which account for 60 percent of the Latin America’s air traffic, it’s getting easier to jet around.

In the last two years, at least five new low-cost carriers, including Click Mexicana, InterJet and Volaris, have started service in Mexico, according to ALTA, the Latin American Air Transport Association. And the low-cost airlines GOL Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes, BRA and WebJet now account for more than 40 percent of Brazil’s domestic market.

Even some budget carriers from the United States have begun expanding to Latin America. Spirit Airlines started service to San Jose, Costa Rica, on April 5 and plans to serve Guatemala City from Fort Lauderdale and Los Angeles starting May 10 and 11 respectively. It also has filed for service to Caracas, Venezuela, and to Lima and Chiclayo in Peru.

Just went onto ThomsonFly and a 1 week return flight in December was £323 or £343with meal inclusive of taxes. jumps to £953 for 2 weeks over Christmas + New year.

Hi simmonz,

Not surprised as xmas and new years is the higest peak time and all operators etc all over the world start charging rediculous prices at least 3 times the normal rates-and get away with it!!!

Its outrageous that they do this but thats the way and people will pay it and more and more people go away for this period now as they dont want to stay in england (dont blame them)!!

Daylight robbery as far as Im concerned!!

Theres no such thing as a cheap getaway at xmas or new year anymore!!

See ya D

Hey Robh,

How is your investigation coming along? Did you plan all of your travel within the country before you arrived, or are you taking it day-by-day?

Greg

Hi,

I understand your concern, but regarding what dear Mr Golfingworld says:

I have a friend who was a real estate investor and bought loads of property on the costa del sol over 20 years ago. At that time there were irregular flights, charters from UK to Malaga that only ran a few months per year, or you had to go via Madrid. Once you got to Malaga he had to drive down the old n-340 for anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 hours along a very bad highway to get to where he was going. How much do you think this guy is worth now?

Will Brazil go the same way, I can't be certain, but the country is moving ahead at a great pace, it is self-sufficient in oil (which economically means a lot), has no terrorism, is a stable democracy, plus is actually a beautiful and exciting place to visit.

Regards,
Rob.

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