Cheers Rob,

I already made my decision a month back when I reserved, I am not changing my mind, Its going ahead, I just throught he had some valid points, It's very easy to dismiss opinions not in your favour. I try my best not to do it because I never want to kid myself. I am so excited about my Brazil, I just don't want to hype myself up so much to recieve dissapointment, (im sure i wont)

here's to Samba Land 'ching ching'

Rob, unless I am missing something here, isn't any fundamental business proposition based on buy low sell high? Tell me anyone who buys high and sells low, except for those who bet on Tiger Woods or those wish just finished off plan apartments in Fuengirola? Now you have opened up the price debate, let's be clear about something. Prices that Ihave seen offered in Natal (can only speak Natal) are not low. They are riduclously high for the current state of the economy, the infrastructure, the accessibility, the suport and most important of all the demand in the market. Off plan developers seem to only work off one principal which is "the next phase will cost more, so yours will have gone up in value". That's like telling me that a newly floated Company's share price will guarantee me profit beacuse the 2nd float will be at a higher price..and so i can follow that price up. Wrong....prices work on one, well two things only..."supply and demand" find me an economics book somewhere please that tells me that beacuse you pretend something is in demand and sell the next batch higher prices will continue to rise, even though there is a stampede of purchasers. False theory in my view. The whole off plan economy works on a tthe principle that the next phase always has to be higher, this way it justifies the reason for forward buying. The reality is you can drive from Barcelona to Lisbon by the coast and pick off any one of thousands of appartments at discount prices....all because people are trying to bale out as a) there is insufficient rental income and b) they bought high and found prices didn't go higher.
Yes, rather like pyramid selling, those in on the very ground floor can make a killing, providing the next stage comes along quick enough. But in my view this won't happen in Brazil for the reasons explained above. Also just read the posts, lots of comments about "we will get our full guarantee in Septemeber". Nuffun nowhere can I find anyone who says we are up running fully licenced, the first green is in, you can stay in the show flat etc etc.
I understand that you guys have to sell things, but in the olden days when a bloke built a house he had his own money, he bought his bricks, he put the roof on it and then he sold it at the market value. Not the one that he pretended was the value becuuase he artificially inflated the price of the house next door!

Like I said before you should not buy in Brazil, if you are interested in doing so then do some research first.

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Property for Sale in Brazil | Property Pipa | Brazil Property | Guide to Pipa Brazil

Evening all,

Heres some interesting reading from a post Ive copied and pasted over of things to come that I found a few months back!!!!

Emirates has announced plans to launch non-stop services to Brazil from October.

The airline said that the new flight would operate six times a week from Dubai to Sao Paulo through its new Boeing 777-200LR aircraft.

Lasting 14 hours and 40 minutes, the service represents the first of its kind to fly between the Middle East and South America.

"We have been looking to expand our operations in the Americas for some time," commented Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, chairman and chief executive of Emirates.

He added: "We believe this new direct air link will stimulate more trade and tourism exchange between these two thriving economies, and we are confident our service would prove popular with both business and leisure travellers."

Earlier this month, the carrier announced that it is to begin flights between Dubai and Newcastle from September.

The service will be the first ever scheduled long-haul flight from Newcastle.

This one shows that travelling trends are changing significantly!

The number of holidaymakers flying to distant destinations last summer significantly increased compared with last year, according to new research.

Travel agents registered with the Association of British Travel Agents (Abta) saw bookings for locations such as Brazil, Thailand and Sri Lanka soar by 560 per cent, 17 per cent and 19 per cent respectively.

Abta also noted that despite this increase, European hotspots closer to home, such as Spain and Greece, continued to remain popular with Britons.

"Although our traditional Mediterranean favourites continue to dominate the market, our customers are showing an increasing desire to travel to far-flung and exotic destinations," commented Justin Fleming, president of Abta.

Earlier this week, research by climate change charity the Clean Planet Trust found that many British passengers would be willing to pay a voluntary premium of up to £15 to offset carbon emissions on long-haul flights.

So with a small taster of whats to come I would beg to differ with many of Golfingworlds comments- clearly you are feeling very negative towards brazil!!!

BRAZILIAN GOVERNMENT ARE SPENDING MILLIONS IN INFRASTRUCTRE AND MOST OF ALL PROMOTING TRAVEL AND TOURISM TO BRAZIL ALL OVER THE WORLD- THIS IS A FACT!!!

So if they are investing so much time, money and effort in doing this and expanding and introducing new airports and promoting tourism then why will they not allow direct flights from other countries???? As they cannot achieve their goals without doing so- what do they expect people to paddle there or travel around the world and back agin.... NO THEY DONT!!!

Regarding the "supply and demand factor" for flights to brazil why do you think that they can get away with the HIGH PRICES THAT THEY CHARGE AT THE MOMENT!!
YES its because flights are limited and the supply is low but the DEMAND IS HIGH hence why they are so expensive!!!

TAM has nowhere near enough carriers, flights and staff to cater for the rising demand, whereas there are other bigger and better companies that would be more than willing to introduce new routes to and from brazil given the chance!!
TAMs latest crash has not helped the situation either for them as this will dter people from travelling with them in the short term which I am sure has not gone down too well with the brazilian government as this incident has put a dent in their objectives regarding increasing travel and tourism in brazil!!!

Once brazil introduces an "OPEN SKYS AGREEMENT" The applications from airliners wishing to fly there will SOAR!!!! They cannot afford NOT TOO!!
South america is opening up to tourism and brazil will be a gateway to south and north america for travellers!!!

The UK and europe is not a market that brazil can afford to exclude from their flight and tourism plans as they go "HAND IN HAND" And with cheaper prices, carnival atmosphere and less flight time than the caribbean for example I dont see why it wont be attractive to people!!


I do agree that rental income may be an issue for a while due to competition and lack of flights to cater for all, but in time things will improve!!

So much more to say-so little time!!

See ya D

Deedee, a good response and a good debate. Firstly Emirates; they really have got their act together and The Maktoms really have got the right strategy in place. Everything Brasil hasn't. Firstly their plan is to make Dubai a world hub, with their own global carrier..their plan to link with Brazil is actually saying "Dubai is the centre of the world" everything has to be the biggest, best and most notable. A super long flight to a new continent is great kudos for the UAE, but please tell me how an Emirates flight to Rio or SP will stimulate tourist growth in NE Brasil? You are readinng this the wrong way..it stimulates Dubai, not Brasil. Open Skies; if open skies is the road to go, why haven't South Africa gone down this road? SA needs tourism more than most..please tell me why tourists prefer to fly through J'burg than direct to Capetown, George or Durban? Please tell me why there are no lo-cost carriers to SA and very very few charters? I'll tell you, they are not allowed in..it is discouraged. Return one ways....please explain why these are not permitted from Brasil? Because it serves to control the airline market and prices, because major carriers want it that way. What you see in S America is the old system of controlling capacity to keep prices high, not in fact high demand. This has been made worse by the loss of VARIG and TAM has not replaced them, certainly not to Europe. What you hopefully predict is wishful thinking based on the fact that there are now many plots to be sold. The fact is T Cooke and Airtours have cancelled their Brazil programmes earlier this year, not increased them. There doesn't seem to be any increase in availability to Brazil from the UK between now and mid 2008. What i read about Brasil from all the sites I have seen is wonderful "talking up" strategy, but not what I see as fact. Fact is, it will continue to be a very laborious, difficult and expensive place to get to for many years to come. As a much travelled golfer, long haul destinations with golf clubs can become very expensive. BA now try and charge up to £200 for a set of clubs to a long haul destination. There is no BA 2 bag deal to Brasil! Just think about the budget for a golfer for a week from the UK....flights Thomson £400, golf clubs..£30 each way, food and drink on board £20, airport parking (portion) £20, sundry expenses £20..thats about £500 minimum. Accom, food drink..say £300, golf and caddy/buggy 3 rounds £120, food and drink at best £150. You are getting near to £1000 for a week away. Then you have jetlag, extra day needed otherwise you really only have 6 days. How many golfers will take a 4 day break to Brasil? Look at it another way....family of 4 to Brasil for 2 weeks renting a unit in a resort....flights alone, parking etc etc....over £2000. Plus rental costs, food, drinks transport. But, bu an "all inclusive" package for say £750 per head all in...same cost, less spending, more security, more ease. So, you are right, there might be a boom eventually...but to mymind nothing points towards a boom in private rentals.

Hi GolfingDork,

Don't tell me you are an airline expert?

How come thomsonfly has doubled the amount of flights from November onwards if the Brazilian govt. don't want more charter flights going in?

BT

Not according to their website they haven't!
TOM 2833 10:30 16:45 London Gatwick > Brazil, Natal, 01/11/2007-27/03/2008 on eflight a week only from LGW. Where the doubled flight being sold then? Please inform me as I might book it? The best place to search for any charter into Natal ex UK is a sight calledd cheap flights..there is nothing apart from 1st Choice and Thomson and it works out at 1 flight or 250 seat per week...nobody has doubled nuffin!

I seemed to have opened a debate about whether there really are cheap flights into North East Brasil (Natal/Recife/Fortaleza). Are there any travel agents, flight brokers or airline experts out there that can help us? To me this is an important issue as I need to get there cheap and presumably so do others. So the more debate and information about the issue the better.
What I know is that there is only one flight UK/Natal Thomson Gatwick weekly winter only and one flight 1st Choice summer only to Salvador.
I also know about TAP via Lisbon and thats it. There seems to be Thomson from Belgium and also Amsterdam. You can also go into the Brasilian airports site and read Natal arrivals/departures and it tells you which airlines are using Natal and other airports and work backwards, so to speak. This link is the Brasilian airport flight arrival/departure link...it tells you every airline in and out of every airport, charter or scheduled. From here you can work backwards and see who go where and when. From what I can see the majority of flights are internal flights all sourced around Rio/SP. http://www.infraero.gov.br/voos/index.aspx

If anyone has any bright ideas, I'd be pleased to read them as the more cheap flights and info the better for all concerned.

But i thought you were an airline expert? Try industry news.....

I can find no evidence of this, if you have some produce it! Certainly not for sale on their website or airline sites...so what dates times and frequency are you talking about. Let's deal in facts...isn't that my point..facts not fantasies.

I have posted another thread about flights to Brazil...let's open it up and see what people really know and look at the facts. If you know about an increase in flights to this area, if you know of new carriers going in there, if you know of cheap and convenient routing, post the info it is for the good of all of us. My suspicion is there is a lot of hype and fantasy surrounding NE Brasil. It is one of the most awkward and expensives places in the world to get to and I don't think things will change foryears to come...please proveme wrong..that means the proprty stampede can start and we can all make money! But let's base it on facts not fantasy.