Brazil Flight Information!! - Page 67

JMBroad · #**661** 23-05-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

Mr Broad, do you know where one of the longest runways in the Uk is? Doncaster..now known as Robin Hood Airport....only recently developed by your friends at Thomson Fly. Has it become a major transit route and opened up the local economy? There is a vast difference between a new airport and a new hub....if the brazilian Govt be it federal or Local are so confident about it, why seek investment from outside? Clearly you cannot have a hub in place without the infrastructure, by two swallows do not make a summer and it seems to me that many are clinging onto the hope that this airport will be the starting point for the oversold and underinvested boom that is allegedly on the way.

Brazil has potential but it is way way behind other parts of the world like Middle East and Far East, clearly this is why it is cheap....but what seems clear to me is that real tourist investment has not gone in......I just paid the same price as a Pousada on Ponta Negra for a fully furnished "business suite in The Far East, includes flat screen tv, iron, kettle, ac, king bed, free water, safe, dvd and stereo etc etc.........and the flight price was over £200 less than Brazil. Give me onbe good reason why there is going to be a stampede to Brazil for so much less at the same price and get mugged int he process. I am not knocking Brazil, just recognising the reality..something that few seem able to do!

As I've mentioned several times before, it's not only about the current situation but about what we believe will happen in the future. I'm no psychic so I don't claim to know exactly what will happen.

However having said that. I believe the airport in Natal will be built. I believe that the new airport will initially have capacity for 5 mil passengers, three times more than the current capacity. I believe that if the demand is there, that airport will have the ability to be rapidly expanded to 10-15 mil passengers. Of course for that to happen a number of conditions have to come into play.

But once again - and I've said this a billion times -

Nine states make up the Northeast,
Four airports welcome 81% of total arrivals (98% of international 82% of domestic). For those that don't like statistics - 15.300.097 passengers of a total of 18.721.106 passengers to the northeast.

Those four airports are running at combined 100% capacity, (84%, 120%, 121% and 99%) so demand for a new airport is justified. So far this year, there has been overall 7% growth on those figures.

The last airport which was increased in capacity in the region was Recife which was increased from 1.5 mil to 5 mil (more than three times the capacity). This increase was in 2004 - three years later (2007), this airport welcomed 4.2 mil arrivals (84% of expanded capacity or 280% of previous capacity).

So from the above, what I understand is that not only is the new airport easily justified to the powers that be but that the growth of 1.5 mil to 10 mil over a period of a couple of years is possible, especially if they do move forwards and open up the legislation to make it a hub. Of course it isn't a hub now, it's hardly an airport.

But it isn't necessarily a duck, it could turn out to be a swan.

JMBroad · #**662** 23-05-2008, 05:19 PM

Updated April information

Data is YTD April 2007 vs 2008

Overall increase in arrivals for the Northeast:

4.5% increase in the Northeast (286.751 more passengers than last year)

Overall information (Domestic and International)

Fortaleza - 3% decrease - 40 k passengers (109% of capac. in 2007)
Salvador - 0.5% increase - 12 k passengers (99% of capac. in 2007)
Natal - 10% increase - 57 k passengers (121% of capac. in 2007)
Recife - 17% increase - 232 k passengers (84% of capac. in 2007)

4% decrease with regards to international arrivals (18.942 passengers less than last year)

Of the total amount of arrivals which did visited the northeast, the important information to have is where are people going - how many travellers chose one destination over another?

This doesn't show us if there are more or less people visiting the country simply the trend of travellers - where are people chosing to travel in comparison to last year.

Recife -
Domestic - 2.37% decrease
International - 4.60% decrease

Fortaleza -
International - 0.66% increase
Domestic - 1.43% increase

Salvador -
International - 0.72% increase
Domestic - 1.22% increase

Natal -
International - 3.86% increase
Domestic - 0.87% decrease

robh · #**663** 23-05-2008, 06:09 PM

Air Europa, a spanish airline, is starting gatwick to salvador.

NEW UK FLIGHTS TO BRAZIL : BRAZIL PROPERTY NEWS

michaelbush · #**664** 23-05-2008, 06:49 PM

Interesting article in the Tribuna do Norte - the airport IS in constrcuction, the main runway is well advanced and the money to finsih it is liberated. Link as follows Licitação para obras de acesso a aeroporto começa na terça - Tribuna do Norte. posssibly will be operating well in advance of my previous thoughts ,and will receive the 800 passenger jumbo.

FCZ · #**665** 24-05-2008, 06:43 AM

I was wondering why this difference in pricing policy for different routes. Here is what I got out of it. Foreign airlines are free to price their round tickets from their country of origin (except if there is a restriction from their own country) and a round ticket selling in Brazil if there isn’t a Brazilian carrier doing the same route. If there is a Brazilian company doing the route (country), then for round tickets selling from Brazil, they have that upper and lower boundaries mentioned in the article. That is the system in practice today; and yeap, Brazil residents are the main suckers here. That explains why sometimes is cheaper to buy a ticket in US/Europe to Brazil than Brazil to US/Europe. Brazilian companies attend mainly South America, and then they attend just few cities in USA & Europe.
What is supposed to be implemented within a year is the open sky policy, that was already approved, but without specify the implementation date (great...). This policy will delete all those bilateral agreements in place today. They can be checked at ANAC (National Aviation Civil Agency) site at: Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil
As you can imagine, the guys representing the National Carriers (I would say one only international, TAM) are furious. One of their representatives was accusing the new ANAC administration of being filled with “a bunch of neoliberals”

, that “will allow the big companies to practice predatory pricing and run wild after put the smaller Brazilians companies out of business”, and blah, blah, blah… Because the same company will be hurt for a possible liberalization of domestic market, they are planting news that in the US only national carriers can operate and foreign participation on those companies is limited to 25% (Don’t know if this is true, possible; but still domestic market in the US is more competitive). These guys are not going down without put up a fight…
So that article was referring to the implementation of the open sky policy, where pricing restriction and number of flights should be erased to all routes, whether round tickets are bought abroad or internally. The implementation date was verbally announced, within a year, let’s see what happens. For domestic routes open up will certainly take longer. But hopefully will happen too. They are mad and eager to protect their "easy earned money", but on the other side of the table, there are several business being hurted too, besides consumers, eager to protect their "hard earned money". Now, it's wait and see

.

Golfingworld · #**666** 24-05-2008, 02:35 PM

Great stuff FCZ interesting analysis. I can understand why brazilian Airline Company with low labour cost and high European prices doesn't want the good times to end. TAP enjoying it from their side of the atlantic too. If US carriers can get in then fine, but all these "old boys" like the system that controlled for years. They want price protection where there is no free competition and liberality, where there is..in other words, "their cake and eat it". The problem is open skies means better prices to SP and RIO as here is the traffic and high revenue business class tickets. Natal and its new airport, which is the whole debate does not have enough demand for high profit business travellers. Unless they can feed in from other domestic locations to make up cheap transatlantic flights there is no market. The new airport runway doesnt need to be any longer than standard 747 runway as otherwise how could the A380 land at heathrow without it being extended? The issue for the A380 is the gate height and handling such volume, not the actual runway. So really the A380 is a red herring as if you look at who has bought it it is North Atlantic and Far East....Emirates are the largets buyer of A380's so far. This equipment is no good for low traffic low yield routes which is what Natal is new or old airport....unless it becomes a feeder, but look at a map and from Europe if you want to feed Venezuela, Colombia etc why fly 2 hours further south to Natal? This leaves Arg/Chile/Para, not exactly high demand EU routes and anyway can be done thru RIO/SP where there is high revenue income. So, can anyone please explain to me how exactly this hub theory works in Natal? Only thing I can see is Gol or such like link in with EU carrier or Emirates and feed in from N/NE/Central Brasil. Cargo hub maybe, but unless I go in a cardboard box, doesn't help me get there cheaper. That leaves TAP and anyone who knows TAP will realise that the last of their concern is their passengers or free competition!

michaelbush · #**667** 24-05-2008, 05:02 PM

Has anyone checked out internal flights with this low cost carrier in Brazil?
http://www.webjet.com.br/

This is a possibility for those that can get to Recife, Salvador or São Paulo or Forteleza.

On the subject of the new airport news is coming regularly and it is clear that the airport is in construction and is a reality. It WILL be the largest and will handle a great deal of freight in a hub for South America. As for passenger hun as well........we have to wait and see what develops. Here politics plays a great part in all these types of projects, and there are many business models that demonstrate to the government that monopolistic pricing is anti productive. People can bang the drum as much as they like, but a little patience to see what the strong lobbying will produce, is in order.

michaelbush · #**668** 24-05-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

, .
Talking of reality, I hear that natal is empty of tourism at present, many places closed and hotels talking of mass redundancies..not to mention the loss of Thomson flights and the liquidation or alleged liquidation of some major mega developments such as GNG etc etc. So before you Agents bash the likes of myself and Dotty, go and take a good look in the mirror and take stock of the reality as the property world is today.

What you hear GW is not really fact- it is low season and the English are missing at present! Natal is full of Brasilian tourists and there are flights coming regularly from Germany and Holland, and actually things are not as you describe them- last night, your favourite entertainment area was heaving.
June will see even more Brasilians here from the south, and this is still classed as low season. Natal will remain a favorite with Brasilians. The footy was shown on Brasilian tv (not only cable) and they are still showing the highlights today, so I guess Brasilians love Manchester! Today they have rugby showing in shopping and that must be for the benefit of us gringos!

#**669** 25-05-2008, 03:26 AM

Guys,

Excellent information!

But getting back to topic. I think one reason less Americans venture to northeast Brazil is no direct flights! I remember my first time, we flew Miami-SP-Recife. About 16hours total to Recife. If Gol or Tam offered a Mia-Recife direct, you might see a huge influx of more money into the northeast, and from what I understand, Varig used have a direct Mia-Recife route but cancelled back in the mid 1990s, and not sure why. Any idea of a MIA-NE Brazil direct anytime in the near future?

RalphJ · #**670** 25-05-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raimundo

Guys,

Excellent information!

But getting back to topic. I think one reason less Americans venture to northeast Brazil is no direct flights! I remember my first time, we flew Miami-SP-Recife. About 16hours total to Recife. If Gol or Tam offered a Mia-Recife direct, you might see a huge influx of more money into the northeast, and from what I understand, Varig used have a direct Mia-Recife route but cancelled back in the mid 1990s, and not sure why. Any idea of a MIA-NE Brazil direct anytime in the near future?

Hey Ray;

There's been for years and still is a Miami-Salvador direct flight every Sunday morning with Tam.