Can someone tell me who is going to run all these new golf courses in Brazil? Brazil is a massive country and they have only about 12 golf courses, there isn't anyone in the north east that knows athing about golf..who is actually going to run them, the tee times, shops, driving ranges etc? How are you going to buy a golf ball? Has anyone tried playing in that heat? Then there is the security issues of being far out on a golf course..this all sounds wonderful but what is the reality. I have been to Natal twice over a three month period and not seen a guy with a bucket and spade yet! Please tell me I am not wrong and why and I might buy. Plus has anyone actually tried to get there from Europe apart from with Thomsonfly? TAP have a monopoly and that is about €1250. There are no direct flights to NE Brazil at all, everyone has to go to Rio or SP. European property grew due to low cost flights..how's that going to work in Brazil if everything is routed through the south of the country? No flights no people...simple.

Probably the same way Golf courses were run in Spain, Portugal and everywhere else before Golf became so popular. There are still lots of Golf courses in both Spain and Portugal which still operate this way. The golf course will employs a Greenkeeper from abroad, caddies will be locals with possibly a foreign caddy master until the local caddies are confident enough, Golf Director will probably also be foreign. Eventually, the owners of the golf course will continue to try and source a cheaper option by hiring a locals who have the qualifications to take care of each area of expertise.

Golf balls, along with all other golfing accessories you'll be able to find in the pro-shop(s) at the clubhouse(s). Considering Golf Professionals working at golf courses make a very large percentage of their income through Pro-shop sales I would find it odd that the Pro would not have a shop set up.

Yes. And to be honest, I prefer it. I never understood my fellow golfers who get up at the crack of dawn, wolf down their brekkers and shoot off to the golf course to get the first tee time so that they can avoid being stuck behind some slow players. The possibility for golfers of going out on the course at (almost) any time they want to (because unlike courses in other countries, tee-times aren't fully booked from 8:00 to 14:00) is like being king of the course. Many times on the hottest days I'd do a full 18 holes without seeing another golfer apart from my four-ball. Have you, as a golfer, ever tried that? I tell you, as a beginning golfer, it's heaven. No pressure from behind with other groups waiting for you to get off the green so they can take their shot, etc. As a better player, you don't have the hassle of having to wait for a player like me to hurry up. All in all, yes it's hot and you sweat a bit, but in exchange for not having to get up at the crack of dawn, not having someone behind/in front of you, being able to spontaneously decide "hmm I feel like a round of golf" and being able to get a tee-time, I feel it's worth it.

Yup, that has me a bit concerned too, but I imagine that they will have security as well as the caddies, caddie masters, rangers and the pro all circling the courses. Normally these people would be going around the course anyway, to make sure play is flowing smoothly (and that the slow players aren't slowing down the fast players). Depending on their F&B operation they may even have a person on a buggy selling water and snacks to players or one or two people stationed in the middle of the course at the halfway house. I guess these people could provide some sort of added security. But I assume the golf courses you are talking about are in tourist/residential resorts out of city centres, not the middle of the favela in Sao Paulo.

Well, the "new" airport in Natal might help change that. Now, I know that the airport has been hyped up a lot however if you look at the official info from Infraero:

Na Região Nordeste está em construção um novo aeroporto em Natal e o Aeroporto Internacional de João Pessoa passa por ampliação. Obras em outros Estados da Região foram concluídas. O terminal de passageiros e a pista do Aeroporto de Petrolina, em Pernambuco, foram ampliados. Recife ganhou um novo aeroporto, com capacidade para cinco milhões de passageiros por ano. Maceió também tem um novo aeroporto desde o final de 2005, com 22 mil metros quadrados, quase o triplo da antiga estação. O Aeroporto de Campina Grande, na Paraíba, foi ampliado.

Além disso, o Aeroporto de São Luís passou a ser internacional, após investimentos da Infraero para adequação da estrutura aos padrões de aeroporto internacional.

Basically what that says is that not only is the new airport in Natal being built, but Joao Pessoa is being improved/enlarged. Other work on airports in the region have been carried out. Petrolina in Pernambuco has been enlarged, Recife has a new airport with a capacity of 5 mil per annum, Maceió also has a new airport (built at the end of 2005) which is triple the size of the last one. The airport in Paraíba was also enlarged.

Sao Luis airport is now an international airport following investments on behalf of Infraero to upgrade the facilities.

Now, although Infraero states that they are in charge of building the new Natal airport, I've heard rumours that it is going to be privatised to speed up the construction. Infraero information states that they are building it (well, the Brazilian army is, under their supervision) and that it will be finished in 2009.

According to the local newspaper though, 14/07/2007 - Tribuna do Norte , the president of Infraero, brigadier José Carlos Pereira, met on the 13.07.2007 with the governor Wilma de Faria and the president of BNDES, (Brazilian development bank) Luciano Coutinho, to determine how they could speed up construction of the new airport in Natal, (Sao Gonçalo de Amarante). They discussed the possibility and agreed that privatising the construction would be the best course of action. Several companies were involved in the discussion, including AENA (state owned company which runs all Spanish airports).

It seems to me like a case of chicken and egg. Should we be asking how to get there now when the resorts people are talking about haven't been built yet or how will we get there when the resorts are actually built and the owners want to get there to visit them? According to official statements from the government and from the local newspaper (both of which are in Portuguese so are not propaganda for the europeans) the airport will be ready by 2009. Assuming you are referring to Elegance Grand Natal (as you mentioned the golf courses) both should be ready more or less at the same time. Until then, you have TAP or Thomsonfly and someone mentioned the option of flying from Holland? Unless someone else opens flights between now and then which is a distinct possibility considering the interest and investment going on in the region.

And I don't even like Elegance GN personally. I think it is an interesting project and potentially a good investment but not my cup of tea as I prefer smaller projects like Jacuma. (everyone has different tastes).

Hi all,

Appreciate the above comments but its not just brazil that has these issues to consider its all over the world NOW!!!

I mean the same applies to alot of countries regarding heat, conditions, supplies and security- look at egypt, morocco, caribbean, aswell just to name a few- how do they do it? Or are going to do it aswell but they have!!!

All will come with time its still very early stages in brazil thats why the time is now to invest! Thats how to get the best properties and the best prices on the best developments (from an investors point of view)

There will be companies all over the world fighting to supply them with the products and services they need if they cannot supply it themselves!

Regarding who will be employed to run the golf courses etc- there will be applicants yet agin from all over the world who are looking for the opportunity to relocate if necessary and live and work there- so yet again not an issue!

Flights- NEW AIRPORTS BEING BUILT-The biggest south american airport being built in natal by 2010!
Companies have already been applying for licences to fly there and will continue to do so!

BA fly to Sao paulo twice a week, and rumours that they will introduce more at some point to different locations!
VIRGIN- Did a couple of trial run flights in November last year and the flights sold out straight away and there was no problems!

Budget airlines have now astarted cheap long haul flight to the middle east, asia etc-so why would they not fly to brazil???? There is no reason not too!!!

" If you build it they will come" is one of my sayings- all it takes is 1 or 2 big named players to start flying and the rest will follow suit- youll see!!!!

See ya D

They are opening up thousands of jobs to loacals plus even putting them trhough a training academy of some sort including english language.

I know loads of Pro's and Golf Directors in lots of countries including:

South African and Portuguese Pro's working in Germany
English Pro working in Germany
Irish Pro working in Portugal
Scottish and English Pro's working in Spain.

Why would Brazil be any different? As long as they are making money, have good living conditions for themselves and their family, there are enough people around (probably even quite a few who speak Portuguese fluently by now from working in Portugal/Spain) to be able to staff all of the new golf courses and more besides.

I don't share your optimism..here's why. There is a worldwide tendency for "third world" countries to protect their national carriers and they have a "centre ism" about their airports and hubs. A good example of this is South Africa who still restrict flights into Capetown and Durban and maintain a high price level for flight prices. The global carriers go along wit this as it gives them maximum yield and it protects SAA. Morocco was the same until recently now they have let in low cost operators. Spainw as like it as well almost until the early 90's. The current airport in Natal can already take more long haul flights, so the airport infrastructure is not the issue. Everyone seems to beleive that once the new airport open, flights will flood in..but they could flood in now if they wanted to. The key issue and this is no different to Johannesborg or Casablanca is that all major carriers work through a hub in Rio or SP and this mentality will take yars to break...as it did in Morocco and is still yet to break in SA. So, Americans not only need a Visa to get o Brazil, but they need to fly from JFK and halfway back again to get to Natal or resorts close by. So, where are all these "rental guarantees" goin gto come from if there are no clients to rent to? I often admire the wonderful optimism of people in the overseas property market but in reality if there are 5 more flights a week into Natal that is only 2000 people maximum..so where is this huge growth coming from. Likwise, do you now know how much airlines want to charge for a set of golf clubs? One some airlines it is cheaper to book another seat and put the clubs next to you! Finally, someone lower down said BMI Baby a UK low cost operator is now flying to Natal..I have seen this on a property website too. BMI fly only 737's and they would get as far as the Azores before they ran out of fuel. It is this very mis-infomration and ridiculous over optimism that makes me extremely sceptical of falling for this "make a fortune overnight philosphy". As my old boss used to say.."If it was easy..we'd all be doing it"

Can almost imagine it:

"This is your captain speaking... sorry but we kind of misjudged our fuel capabilities... Anyone fancy a holiday in Sao Miguel, Azores instead?"

But on a more serious note, BMIbaby only operates in UK - Europe as far as I know, and nothing on BMIbaby website indicates anything to the contrary so that sounds like some dodgy marketing right there.

Although I do see your point, I keep hearing about the new airport being one of the biggest and busiest (in the world, South America, Universe - take your pick varies on who you talk to) however according to Tribuna do Norte again, it is estimated that the airport will cater to around 5 million passengers a year. Considering that in 2006 9 Spanish airports received 5 million plus passengers that's not massive but it is still 96000+ visitors a week. So whereas I have my doubts that it will be the busiest passenger airport in the world, it should be more than sufficient to cater to the needs of the region and the resorts around it. Whether it will be the busiest cargo airport I don't know and doesn't really help us regarding occupants for the residential investments over there.

To put it in perspective, Sao Paulo (Congonhas and Guarulho together) currently welcome around 23 mil passengers a year, Brasilia (Juscelino K.) 6 mil and Rio de Janeiro (Santos Dumont) 5.5 million.

Don't know the figures for Marte in Sao Paulo or Galeao/Jacarepagua in Rio I'm afraid but Santos is supposed to be a lot busier than Galeao and Jacarepagua.

Regarding golf clubs, I know, it is expensive, but golfers are strange people... Many would probably prefer to pay the extra seat and take their clubs instead of their spouses/kids...

Or they could just rent them when they get there, club rental quality has improved loads in recent years

Hi Golfingworld,

Flights are easy to get to Natal, Salvador and Forteleza. Direct from 2 carriers in UK, 2 or 3 in Spain, 1 in Portugal, 1 in Holland, 1 in Germany, and a few in the Scandy countries (not sure about the number). I have heard Virgin is also looking to start flights, but that could just be a rumour.

TAP is the Portuguese national carrier, so it won't have the monopoly on anything except Portugal. Varig was the Brazilian national carrier, but is gone now, so TAM and GOL are duking it out for the no. 1 spot.

Regards,
Rob.

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Brazil Property | Pipa Brazil

Americans don't enter into the equation, Brazil and the US are having a visa dispute as the Brazilians don't like being treated as potential terrorists when they go to the US. This probably won't change for years.

There have been Northern and Continental europeans going to NE Brazil for years, the Spanish and Portuguese are buying up property (mostly South of Natal at this time) as quickly as it is released.

A "rental guarantee" is just that, the developer will pay you a rental income out of their own money if they cannot rent it out.

Regards,
Rob.

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Brazil Property | Pipa Brazil