As I just earlier added some basic info about myself and my property in the new members topic below I ll get staraight to the point. I bought a 15year Villa 178m2 3 bed 2 bathroom with a added maids accomadation located on a wooping 1780m2 land area with swimming pool, 1 block behind the beach making the beach 20metres away. In March 2006 I paid R$150,000 just under £40K at the time (just over £41k if including all fees). I am certainly not rich so that pushed the boat out alot at the time so had to save up for a while to complete my plan which was of cause to reburb it. After finding the right people to complete my project (after falling out with my orginal real estate company who where suppose to help me this and with rentals)

So I have now spent another R$36,000 retiling all the floor for a modern smart look, 2 new completed batrooms with electric showers fitted (note the bathrooms are fairly small), roof repairs made, woodwork all new farnished, everywhere repainted inc outside garden walls, new doors and windows fitting, new ceilings fitting in the 3bedrooms with new electric lights and fans, a 4th bedroom being made from a exsisting upstairs space with a wall being knocked to make a double door to lead onto a new 25m2 balcony (to also give ocean view) which is acually being built as i speak with a bbq decting being added underneith the new balcony.

My point being why is they not more people buying 2nd hand ????? with the advanage of cheap labour and cheap hardwhare accessarys, create your own personal touch unlike all new builds on the development being the same, and this method i believe to be much cheaper lot more for your money.

Disadvanges i think so far is that i dont think resells are advertised much and you have to dig deep to find good ones in the right areas and need to find the correct people to help you with it which is not easy.

Any thoughts?

Paul

Hello Paul, yes I have many thoughts and I agree entirely with you. Everyone will do what they want and some don't want the hassle of resales. But, you have done what I have seen in natal and that is a very good resale market at cheaper prices, especially in the Ponta Negra area. To my mindeverything I see in Ponta Negra is what you saw in Miami Beach 30/40 years ago. Scruffy, run down, great beach, some bars and discos etc etc. South Beach and surrounding areas had a crime problem and then along came "Miami Vice" and everything changed. People bought those art deco buildings, smartened them up and bingo...prices went through the roof and it became the trnedy place to go. Anyone who knows about construction could make a killing in this area too as there are many houses around £40/50k which might one day be worth £200k. Oddly, I think all these "off plan" developments will pull people int NE Brazil it will have to as people won't spend their money andjust do nothing and not visit. But, the entertainment area will remain in Ponta Negra and in reality the decent shops are near there too, certainly not 50km north anyway. The Italians are big into Ponta Negra for various reasons, but if some smart money comes in it could become the new Miami Beach. Odd things happen in life, something may trigger it just like people thinking that off plan is an easy route to a fast buck. I don't, but that is the issue, but either way it is my view that Ponta Negra is the place with the long term potential as a resort, then all those beaten up houses (or ones with private escritura) start to become worth something. I am sure that many like you will go to Natal and do the same (or other areas) and it is not such a wild concept as I have been firmly told by some who prefer to sell off plan.

Hi Paul,

What are you going to do about security?
What happens when no-one stays in your place for 3 months?
Where is your place?

I also wonder why you just didn't bulldoze the place and start afresh, the majority of those villas are not built to last and have an old style title, which is why they sell for so little.

They usually have all sorts of problems being next to the sea and using sub-standard materials.

BT

G,

Of course you can buy those houses with the old style titles for dirt cheap for a very good reason: There are most likely debts attached to the house, the cost of changing the title is also very expensive and may not even succeed, or you might find that there is some claim for the place 2 years later after you have refurbed it and end up losing it.

Only buy places that have non-revocable public title, which means paying more I am afraid....

The 2 houses I saw were on "Escritura Publica", I could have bought a house on private escritura for £8k nearby. But this is exactly my point as eventually money will talk if the area takes off. Any house within 2km of Ponta negra on proper escritura is worth no more than £100k max you could rebuild most of these for £30k. Find me a 4 bed home 2/3 blocks from Ocean Drive Miami less than $500k!

G,

Who is talking up Natal now? Are you sure you are not an agent or developer?

BT

G,

When you say 2km of Ponta Negra you mean back from the beach with no sea views, etc..? I can't imagine you can buy anything for £100k anywhere near the beach.

BT.

Hi, thanks for your feedback to you both. Security, i have a small family who live in my maid accomadation in fact they have lived there for years, the lady cleans, cooks, washes clothes etc for me or my tennants and her husband maintains my pool, garden and cuts down all the coconut fruit for us from all the trees i have. They is also a big dog and the rule is that someone always has to be at the property, which is a normal for these types villas. I pay the minium wage which is now at R$380 month, its just instead of a communal fee i suppose. Also i have someone who is English who lives in the area to also check on the place and pay the wages, in return he takes 20% of my rentals as they come. I also telephone my employees to check on things and make sure there is no rentals that i am not already aware of, using my basic portuguese (which is now getting much better). If the employees need to get an urgent message to me without the knowlage of my English friend then I have told them they must use the internet cafe up the road in Cumbuco to email then i would refund the difference eg R$5.

The reason why i didnt knock down and start again is because first didnt have the funds to do that at the time hence why i worked very hard to find a cheaper more effective way on gaining on this market. The main reason is though is that there is nothing wrong with the quality of build and materials used in the Villa in that perticular area, at already 15 years old it looks as strong as ever. When i checked out these areas first i took with me my mate who is a experienced full qualified builder to help advise. The thing s that were wrong with it which is common with that age is that they was no earth to the electrics which i have had now added, needed some new roof tiles and the place needed modernising which i have recently done. Now the place does look new! And if anyone from here happens to be in Fortaleza from the 9th of november for 2weeks then i would be happy to show them if they are interested.
As for building a new house i can do that later if i want on all my land in addition to my existing villa.

This part of Tabuba (2min south of Cumbuco) the villas was all built from the same construction company 15years ago about and was not built by any old bloke who just invested in some old bricks. You are right though to be very caution because many properties are built like that to poor standard, but many are also not. Also i can well imagine many properties will have debts to them so you simply have the common sense to find your own Lawyer in the area to check all this, who can speak your language who is not connected to the estate agent if you ARE buing through an agent that is. also play the game if you know what i mean for example slightly leave the impression to your lawyer or agent that you may buy many more in the in time even if you definatly wont be, or add in that some of your friend s are interest in what you are doing so might be following in time, the lawyer etc will not see your face when he looks at you he will only see $$$$$$$ and will then look after you better.

I believe in my way is better, obviously, but its way too early to say for sure and im certainly not experienced at this, i just think if you do your research carefully and cover the hard ground and follow some simple common sense like you would in your own country when buying people can get a beter deal.

So would love to hear more opinions?

Well done Paul, you have takenthe difficlt route bu the one that will yield you well in the future, plus you are learning on the job...a proper entrepreneur. I said the same about Ponta Negra and got slated for it by some. Whether you like PN or not it has the most elements of a proper "holiday resort" as you would find in Europe, beach, bars, restaurants, good shops nearby, hipermarkets, good roads, cheap taxis and 30 mins max from airport. Given moretime I might try and do what you have done as well in Natal as I really believe it can become the new Miami Beach. Some may not like what that represents, but all the above elements mean that if there is a boom, this is where it will be!

But there will never be enough flights into PN, so how will you make money out of rentals on old villas when there will be plenty of brand new modern places for rent? I know which one I would rather stay in..