Yes i still think you have a decent investment, they are no favellas around there for sure, the main road up the north beach from Fortaleza is fine, most of smallroads by side streets are bad but that everywhere in Brazil and infact most of the world. I also think for investment is decent because you are also hitting the huge internal market when you come to try rent/sell rather than just relying on foreign tourism. Any other tips then please just ask me!
Good luck

Paul-brasil

I have sent you a pm, be very greatful if you could read it for me and let me knwo your thoughts.

Kind regards
Nick

Hi Greg,

That method is an prime example, little more hassle but lots more profit on income and more importantly income straight away instead of waiting 2year etc. I used this example which is very common to help open a few minds and put a dent in the offplan sales spin and propaganda which i feel is being pushed a little too far. Dont worry readers as much as i admire and agree alot of which Golf writes rest a sure that i am not Golf the 2nd as the difference is i so believe in investment Brazil as a whole, i just want some people to be more flexible in there thoughts about it all.

At the moment i own a villa which i hope you have already read about, not a appartment on Beira Mar (altough that is my next aim!) I dont use that system you are asking about yet. In fact i have only rented my villa out on 3 occasions due to only just doing my refurbs because i only got the fund s to do it only a few months ago and because i had some after sales problems with the dam estate agent i used (estates who dont specialise in rentals and only interested in sales) all sorted now though and learned more lessons. The rentals i have had someone who lives in the area collected for me and gave me the money in cash in July when i was last there, infact my my friend got me those rentals shortly before i even did the refurbs at 20% cut, I will be using a internal website shortly and as you wisely stated (you hit the nail right on the head there) be advertising the tourist market too. Tourist would pay direct to my UK account (no tax someone is only owing me some money) because i have a advanage with some contacts in the area and as i visit often i will let my contact collect for me for the 20% and save it till i have my Brazilian account sorted. -Brazilians would not like sending money abroad because international banking in brazil is higher charge than UK.

Now my villa was aimed at a big capital gain with rental income as a nice little bonus for holiday money, my next move i plan on Beira Mar 1 bed, Iam in the process of organising a investment business account then using the $50K to buy the apartment.
Advantages is that Brazilian rentals pay into the account, i dont need topay my contact the 20% and i have the use of a visa as a options (as i think options are great as you never no what the future holds and also i am considering mybe working over there in the short future).

Disadvantage is have to pay the tax which im guessing would be too awkward to dodge though a business acc. but also which the tax can be very much reduced but i dont have enough of those facts yet as still working on that one.

Brazilians if they earn extra money into their personal acc they would laugh at the possibility of paying tax on it, i asked about it once in brazil and got looked and talked at as if i was crazy.

Hope that helps

Paul

OK, I think I got it Paul, but let me clarify...

Currently, you are renting to Brazilian citizens who pay your local contact in cash when they arrive at the property for their vacation stay. Then, when you visit the property, the contact gives you all of the cash he has collected since your last visit, less his 20% cut for his work. What do you do with this money while waiting for your Brazilian bank account to be set up?

For non-Brasilian residents, you have them transmit payment directly to your UK account when they make a reservation, correct? That sounds simple enough if the tourists are from the UK. What do you do if you get someone from outside of the UK who wants to rent it out? Do you know if businesses like PayPal can handle international transactions? If so, it sounds like that would be a convenient way of handling rent payment.

Then, once you set up your brasilian bank account, you will have brasilian citizens pay directly to that account (can you explain how this would work logistically?). Will you still have non-brasilians pay to your UK account or will they pay into your account in Brasil?

Also, how would you suggest going about finding an agent who specializes in investment properties? I guess it would be the same process as at home....you ask around and ask the agent questions about investing. While I love the idea of buying fixers, rehabbing them, furnishing them, and then renting them out (great way to create capital gains), I am a bit wary of doing so from afar as I would not be able to be there to oversee the rehab process. I'm guessing your local contact handled this for you, no?

I am also curious about buying land for development, but have no idea how to look into the legal side of development (i.e. finding out how buildable a plot of land really is, who owns the neighboring plots, getting permits and approval to develop the land, etc). I'm guessing a good local real estate lawyer can assist with that. Again, the issue is finding a good one. I have also considered buying land and holding it to resell to larger developers, but that is a very risky strategy as waiting for a developer to be interested in your specific parcel of land could be like waiting for your numbers to be called in the lottery.

I guess I have a lot to think through (as well as a LOT of on-the-ground investigating to do), but this type of dialogue is very helpful and is why I love this site. So many issues have been mentioned that I never even thought about (and I'm guessing a lot of people who have bought off-plan haven't thought about either).

Thanks again and please keep us posted! Feel free to PM me if you feel the discussion is getting too detailed for the general board.

Greg

Oh, one more question...do you speak portuguese or use translators?

I think the easy way is to find a local administrator (known as Gestoria in Spain, not sure in Brazil) to take your money and make your contracts etc. Plus he will speak the language.

Greg,

Land is pretty difficult to find out there without the help of an agent as a lot of it isn't marked or even obviously listed for sale.

Have a look at the listings on our site, we have two people out there scouting around for us to find them and they find most of it through their local contacts.

There are some fairly obvious rules to follow when looking at land to see what your chances are of getting a license for the project you want. They are mostly to do with environmental factors like how close to the beach, rivers, mangroves, lakes, atlantic forest and of course wildlife. Local planning laws are very strict in some places and not in others. The fun bit is that in Natal you require 7 licenses all up before you can start building.

If you are serious about buying a large plot of land and want to go out to Natal then I can get one of our guys out there show you around and also introduce you to a lawyer we deal with a lot who is very good at getting all the required licenses.

Rob

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Hey Rob,

I am serious, but am not yet ready to pull any triggers. I have to sell a business I have here in the States before I'll have any cash to invest with. But I'll be on these message boards in the mean time, so I won't lose your information.

Greg

Hi Greg

I will answer your other Qs a little latter

I dont know enough info on buying land but from what i can gather from learning a little about it is that its too much hassle for me (and that coming from ME ) and because i think they can be more risks involved if you get something wrong. But also i think if you get it all right and also have the money to build on to it they can be great gains especially if you can over price it to foreigners ha ha. I actuall now know someone who now lives in Cumbuco who has successfully invested in land in a good area called Taiba but is now having lots of trouble get the building done but hopefully he ll get things sorted.

Regards, Paul

Look forward to it..

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Buying land and developing it is just like doing it anywhere else, you need to know your stuff of course, but more important is knowing the people who know how to get things done.

Rob.

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