Have to disagree with you lagarto. I think people investing in a foreign country, if they plan on spending several months a year in said country, or even more, should rent first. That gives people the opportunity to learn about the culture, the language, the people, business, etc., and make a more informed decision.

Brazil is not an easy country to do business in. Matter of fact, by the latest studies, placed 80th out of 118 countries in "ease of doing business". With such factors as infrastructure, bureaucracy, security, corruption, transparency, taxes, and other barriers to the market.

I too have an interest in "selling" brazil. But when I see those that attempt to paint brazil as some tropical paradise where problems don't exist I just have to shake my head. Problems unfortunately exist here moreso than not. Brazil has been a "safe haven" internationally for criminals since all of us here have been alive because of their non-participation in international extradition treaties hence has a knack for attracting unsavory characters from all corners of the planet. If one is a fugitive from the law in any country all he/she has to do is come to brazil and have a brazilian child and they'll never be extradited. This type of environment combined with the way business is done in Brazil, one of the worst countries in the world with respect to bureaucracy, one of if not the leader in the world in falsification of documents, one of the top 5 most heavily taxed countries on the planet, one of the top 5 most dangerous countries on the planet (5th highest murder rate). These factors amongst numerous others make Brazil a very difficult as well as dangerous place to invest, do business, and live.

I know personally dozens upon dozens of foreigners, particularly british, that were sold a bill of goods that was different than what was delivered. Very different. And although I have helped dozens enter the courts, and even win judicial decisions, these decisions are currently being appealed and will more than likely have an outcome in this next round in 2-5 years from now. And even then, can be appealed again to the Supremo in Brasilia and then we're talking about a decade from now.

I'm not saying "don't invest in Brazil". I'm saying people should know what they're getting into. As my 53 year old best friend who is a paulista says, and I agree with totally, Brazil, at least the northeast, is wonderful for the weather, fruits, and women. If one is in the position where his income is derived from another country, or is in the financial position where he can sit on the beach all day and not worry about anything, then full speed ahead. But if one intends on coming to Brazil and doing some type of business then he better be ready for the reality at hand. And it's not an easy one. One of the most difficult on the planet as a matter of fact.

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www.mjrdevelopments.com/ www.rosegardenbrazil.com

Assuming either or both of those conditions apply, then no doubt, visit, stand on the ground, live and rent in the country before investing, but I'd suggest more than just one year unless you already know the language, because if not it may well take you more than one year to learn the language and get to know the culture and how the country works

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Yes, I work for a Real Estate company doing market research and analysis but I'm not involved in sales.

Have a nice day

what if one, just want to buy for vacation/investment, but dont want to move to brazil? Then choose another country?

No, wouldn't say that at all. There are some very good investment opportunities here. But be VERY careful. As stated, this is a very difficult country to do business in. You really need someone here on the ground that can be trusted and is competent in said area. Whether it be a lawyer, a real estate agent, a friend, or even family. And that's the difficult part.

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www.mjrdevelopments.com/ www.rosegardenbrazil.com

That's where we differ in opinion... I don't think trusting a friend or family in Brasil who have no knowledge of real estate should be used to negotiate a property investment in any country, especially Brasil.

I do agree that you should get someone competent in the real estate field to help you with your investment but I don't agree with the idea that someone is more or less competent because of where they are located.

They should be evaluated based on their knowledge of the legal system and of the market, how much care they take on behalf of their clients before, during and after the purchasing process and their track record. The choice should not be based on their residential address. All of the arguments being given to support the theory that Brazil is a dangerous place to invest (no extradition, etc) only supports my personal opinion.

Find someone who you trust but who you can also "hold accountable" nearer to where you live who to negotiate the deals on your behalf, based on their knowledge of the market and legal system. It is easier to verify the reputation and qualifications of a company in your own country or region than it is to verify the reputation, qualifications and existence of someone in Brasil.

Basically what I'm saying is why "trust" someone who you don't know in a foreign country. You can't. Trust yourself after doing thorough checks on the people you chose to represent you.

However, I agree with Ralph that finding the right person to represent you, either in Brasil, Europe, US or Timbuctoo (depending on where you live) is the hard part.

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Yes, I work for a Real Estate company doing market research and analysis but I'm not involved in sales.

Have a nice day

Well, that's where we'll have to differ. When one buys a property or makes an investment in Brazil he needs to be dealing with people, or businesses, that are legally responsible in Brazil. The problems that the numerous english that I have met is/was exactly this. They purchased a property in Brazil yet paid an agent that was not located in Brazil. Hence when the problems arose where does one go to get a legal solution, if/when necessary? To the courts in Europe? The investment is in Brazil, the property is in Brazil. In Brazil? The money was paid in Europe. Also, when one has to go and do all the bureaucracy needed to register a property, pay taxes on the property, etc. Who helps them with that? It needs to be done here, in Brazil, at the local cartorios, city hall, etc. And one should have someone here on the ground that is "on their side" helping them to ensure that everything is on the "up and up". Trusting Brazilian documents that one sees in Europe or any other place is something that I would have a difficult time doing. I, personally, would be confirming these documents through the legal brazilian entities responsible myself.

JM, from what I've heard you are a reputable person and work for a reputable company. I don't doubt that. And moreso I'm not saying that people can't use a company in one country to invest in another. But what I am saying is that people should also have an independant lawyer or another qualified person, at least one that is familiar with the procedures involved with the situation at hand that is on the ground in the place where the investment is taking place.

And I didn't say to trust someone that has "no knowledge of real estate". I said;

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www.mjrdevelopments.com/ www.rosegardenbrazil.com

So you did - so we therefore agree that anyone investing in Brazil should arm themselves with the company and knowledge of a competent person.

If they paid the money for their investment in Europe and said investment wasn't registered with the BCB as coming from them then they didn't use a knowledgeable and competent person. They used either an incompetent or disreputable person.

Totally agree as well that receiving and reading the documents isn't enough, which is why we also have lawyers based in Brasil who check everything for us as well.

I agree therefore that you should always retain independent legal representation in whichever country you are investing in to do your own Due Diligence Checks.

Overall seems we both agree on just about everything.

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Yes, I work for a Real Estate company doing market research and analysis but I'm not involved in sales.

Have a nice day

Hear, hear!

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www.mjrdevelopments.com/ www.rosegardenbrazil.com

Ralph,

You are absolutely 100% spot on! Can I also add that people that generally stick it out in Brasil are people who have a link with it through marriage .The rest generally flock back to their home country after 2/3 yrs -normally because they have used up their cash that they brought with them and cannot find work or their business just cannot seem to get moving because of the complexities of setting one up and costs involved .