The Overseas Property Investment Forum

robh · #**101** 05-05-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dotty

Plenty of middle class and rich voted for Lula in the 1st election ,but were deceived by him and has party.

Ah yes, I too live in a world where a presidential candidate running on a socialist ticket with long ties to the Brazil communist party gets voted in by the rich and middle classes.

He even caused the Real to collapse on his election by, amongst other things, making election promises to default on Brazil's IMF loan repayments (in an about face he ended up paying them back in total before they were due!). Hardly a candidate the middle classes and rich would have voted for then.

Dotty · #**102** 05-05-2008, 06:21 PM

The cost of living in Brasil has increased dramatically along with people borrowing money they do not actually have which is increasing personal debt and future hardship.
Cars at present in Brasil are the most expensive in the world with costs at least 40% higher than other countries and the largest pile of court cases against non payment of cars are in the judges offices.
Food prices have sky-rocketed to about 200% more expensive than 2 yrs ago and overpricing does not look as though it will be reduced in the near future.

Camelungi · #**103** 06-05-2008, 01:27 AM

The knock on effect is how do the poor survive and find the extra money to pay for the price increases? While many no doubt try to make ends meet honestly, how many will turn to crime? Since last Christmas crime in the locality where I live has rocketed and every night thieves looking for places and people to rob. The cost of living may well be the last straw for many who live on the margins of society who cannot get jobs or are unemployable they have not had good education or training. Unless the Government in Brazil come to grips with what is happening - Then it looks like the future will be one of increased violence and robbery. Even those who think they are safe in condominiums - can think again.....its not even safe if staff on the gate let the theives in.

Regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dotty

The cost of living in Brasil has increased dramatically along with people borrowing money they do not actually have which is increasing personal debt and future hardship.
Cars at present in Brasil are the most expensive in the world with costs at least 40% higher than other countries and the largest pile of court cases against non payment of cars are in the judges offices.
Food prices have sky-rocketed to about 200% more expensive than 2 yrs ago and overpricing does not look as though it will be reduced in the near future.

Sao P · #**104** 06-05-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelungi

The knock on effect is how do the poor survive and find the extra money to pay for the price increases? While many no doubt try to make ends meet honestly, how many will turn to crime? Since last Christmas crime in the locality where I live has rocketed and every night thieves looking for places and people to rob. The cost of living may well be the last straw for many who live on the margins of society who cannot get jobs or are unemployable they have not had good education or training. Unless the Government in Brazil come to grips with what is happening - Then it looks like the future will be one of increased violence and robbery. Even those who think they are safe in condominiums - can think again.....its not even safe if staff on the gate let the theives in.

Regards

You are right about the closed Condominiums. I have 2 Brasilian freinds whose familys
weekend houses (in closed condominiums) were robbed during the week when they were not there. In both cases apparently security staff were connected. Condominiums are just more of a deterant to robberies, but certainly no guaranteed your TV will still be there where you left it last week.

Dotty · #**105** 06-05-2008, 10:51 PM

I know of an elderly lady who looks after her granddaughter that live in a closed condominium that were badly robbed for junk imitation gold jewellery!The elderly lady was and still is a frequent lover of anything that looks gold ,but isnt!

At 5 am during the week ,she was woken up with 2 men standing over her bed ,they dragged her out of the bed and tied her to a chair ,gagged her mouth ,woke her 9 yr old grand-daughter and also did the same ,ramsacked the house and ran off with the imitation jewellery .Fortunately,she managed to raise the alarm and could recognize the voice of one of the robbers,who turned out to be the security guard of the condo.He was quickly arrested and her jewellery was returned and she still parades around in it!

People are very nice here,housekeepers,gardeners,builders,whatever ,but there really is a lot of poverty in Brasil where there are millions without food and if the need be(as Lula never gave the families their promised family social allowance)steal from you through sheer desperation ,then people will.Never give cash , but always give food and clothes
and keep your eyes truely open and be as simple as possible and not go around with a full head and then you will get along fine in Brasil !

Raimundo · #**106** 02-06-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

Brazil is the most difficult and expensive place to get to from anywhere and you are also correct that there are much better easier and cheaper locations to go to.

Golfingworld, I agree 100%, and this is why we're investing around Brazil and the Caribbean. There is life outside Brazil fellas...

That said, have you guys given any thought about expanding your horizons and venturing outside the box? I found a little paradise island, a blue lagoon.... great deals, low living costs, no gringos, nice ladies, a great climate and best beach outside Bora Bora. Cost me a lot of $ to find this place...

Take the kid's advice for once and get out the box... travel and expand your portfolio, you might be glad you did!

Brazil is not the end to all means.

Golfingworld · #**107** 02-06-2008, 06:13 PM

Raimundo,

thanks....and I have been around a bit..enough to know that all The Brazil Hype is not true. I like Brazil and can deal with the negatives, but many cannot and they shouldn't be hoodwinked by those peddling falsehoods as they have a hidden agenda. It is by far one of the most difficult places to do many things, in my experience and as this is a flight thread.....to get there easily is right at the top of the list. I just have great difficulty getting my head round those who wish to claim that investment property booms are based on the lack of easy, cheap and flexible transportation!

Raimundo · #**108** 02-06-2008, 06:33 PM

Golfing -

Bare none you and Ralph are the best Posters here. You sound American... anyway, I hear you! If I can help you or if you want to chat, fire me a PM. Hang in there. Some of the bullsh*t I read on here -- these advertisers pushing 'Banana Boat', 'Golf Playa Resort', etc.

Brazil will get better. Cycles run around and come around...

Like I stated before, if Brazil had direct routes form NE Brazil to Miami, more $ and investors; American investors would be there giving Euros much needed buying competition, and (I think) forcing people to stop the scamming. Prices might even decelerate.

Graymax · #**109** 02-06-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

Why the hell is it good news to have prices for property depressed, is it that you either can,t afford to buy anywhere in a competitive market, or are you just one of those people who hate to see anyone doing something that you either can,t afford to do or are too frightened to do, I am sick of hearing negatives from you and Dotty about the northeast of Brazil, if it is so bad why are you constantly on this forum, you should be able to find other threads to spread your doom and gloom, surely there must be a thread for China, or Russia, where nobody want,s to buy, and then at least someone will agree with you.

You are right my friend, can't afford it, or at least my second one in Brazil! Let me answer in great detail as to whymyself and Dottly keep highlinghting the "reality" rather than the "spin" from those who prefer to claim facts or perceptions which are not real.

Only 2 days ago I received a call from a UK property agent trying to sell me a property in a development near Maracajau and he told me to "buy quick as prices are rising fast and will increase 30% at the end of the month". Of course, this is complete nonsese as per many of the statements Agents have tried to make over the last few years.

Clearly, there are many here that would prefer that myself or Dotty were not here then it would be more difficult for some to peddle "hype" to try and prolong a false boom in sales and prices. The offplan or overseas investment premise only works if people believe the concept of "buy now whilst stock last". Once the investor realises that he is better to wait..the concept collapses.

As for dropping or lower prices, that entirely in the interest of buyer, but of course not sellers. Is this reflected in your post. Artificially inflated prices are no good to anyone in the end, otherwise you end up with a "sub prime" type crisis based on cheap loans or speculation where real economic fundamentals have not been applied. Then markets can collapse hurting all those except the ones that earned commissions and the ones who got in and out early.

Maybe if we are not careful, a "sub prime" property crisis might spread round the world sooner than we hoped!

Does this help explain the basic economic theories to you?

With regard to basic economic theories, try this one for size! not everyone buys property in Brazil, or anywhere else abroad for profit, some like myself have bought intending to retire there, and even with the increased cost of living there(according to Dotty) I will still be able to live at least 50% cheaper than I can in the UK, and live in a 4 bed 4 bath detatched villa with its own pool, for half the price I will get for my 3 bed 1 bath terrace house in England, so my learned friend, you appear to have overclubbed on this hole and have not taken into account that buy to invest is not the only reason to buy abroad, but quality of life is paramount, and if I decide to sell at a later date, considering the price I am paying for my "home" in Brazil, I doubt very much that I would lose a great deal of money, and if I did I would have had a taste of a lifestyle I could only dream about in the UK.

Dotty · #**110** 02-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Hi Graymax,

If you are talking about quality of life then it depends what you mean by that,but it certainly is not 50 % cheaper than the uk.Taxes are the highest in the world,cars are 40% more expensive,medical cover is necessary if you plan on retiring here,phone bills are more expensive,condominum fees can be cheap or cost a fair amount in sterling terms and maintaining a home is not actually cheap in Brasil especially if you have a 4 bed/4 bathroom house,however ,eg :you can eat reasonably cheaply,drink a great beer for practically nothing and take long walks on the beaches all day long and lounge in a hammock and watch the sun go down ,so in that aspect you have a fine quality of life,other peoples ideas of quality of life can and are entirely different.
Graymax,you will enjoy your home in Brasil ,so do not see this as a do not come or buy in Brasil .It really is just reality and the beer is the best in the world !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graymax

With regard to basic economic theories, try this one for size! not everyone buys property in Brazil, or anywhere else abroad for profit, some like myself have bought intending to retire there, and even with the increased cost of living there(according to Dotty) I will still be able to live at least 50% cheaper than I can in the UK, and live in a 4 bed 4 bath detatched villa with its own pool, for half the price I will get for my 3 bed 1 bath terrace house in England, so my learned friend, you appear to have overclubbed on this hole and have not taken into account that buy to invest is not the only reason to buy abroad, but quality of life is paramount, and if I decide to sell at a later date, considering the price I am paying for my "home" in Brazil, I doubt very much that I would lose a great deal of money, and if I did I would have had a taste of a lifestyle I could only dream about in the UK.

Cost of Living in Brazil - Page 11

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