due diligence

mitico67 · #1 09-06-2008, 01:07 PM

Absolutely - however as mentioned a million times before - always check the due diligence of a development you are thinking of investing in. We did our Due Diligence on those two which is why we haven't sold any there.

Hi JB, just to let you know that back in Sept 2007, the Brazilian solicitor referred to me assured me that the due diligence for Lago de Coello was fine. I didn't go ahead with the deal just because of my gut feelings. If you cannot trust a solicitor........

robh · #2 09-06-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitico67

Absolutely - however as mentioned a million times before - always check the due diligence of a development you are thinking of investing in. We did our Due Diligence on those two which is why we haven't sold any there.

Hi JB, just to let you know that back in Sept 2007, the Brazilian solicitor referred to me assured me that the due diligence for Lago de Coello was fine. I didn't go ahead with the deal just because of my gut feelings. If you cannot trust a solicitor........

It depends what the report from the solicitor said. Doing due diligence means checking that everything that a developer says is in place is exactly as they say.

Although I don't like ??? and they have scammed me too, I would guess that the solicitor wasn't lying.

Golfingworld · #3 09-06-2008, 03:51 PM

This "Due Diligence" cliche is another nonsense. A Solicitor cannot check if a Firm and/or their Associates or Agents are, might be or could be in Financial trouble sometime in the future. It could well be that a Solicitor dots every i and crosses every t, but he cannot and will not give you a gut feel on the market or the future. These developments like GNG and Lagoa may indeed have all the permissions, they also didn't plan (hopefully) to get into difficulties...but they allegedly did, so it seems, for whatever reason. And as Mitico says, he did his but his gut tells him others. You cannot just sit there and say "Due Diligence" this means nothing apart from covering your backs, it is real market information, proper knowledge and extensive in the market research. Even then, these developments seem to have (allegedly) big problems and many invested. Why, because they were unlucky, didn't properly evaluate things, didn't go there and smelt, saw and tasted and almost certainly believe the hype which is/was peddled about. There is no substitute for rolling your own sleeves up, not saying "They've done The Due Diligence" so it must be ok.

JMBroad · #4 09-06-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitico67

Hi JB, just to let you know that back in Sept 2007, the Brazilian solicitor referred to me assured me that the due diligence for Lago de Coello was fine. I didn't go ahead with the deal just because of my gut feelings. If you cannot trust a solicitor........

I know but at the same time, I've received several DDR's from different lawyers sent to me by different agents and some of them state categorically "can not be sold" - the problem is it was in Portuguese so the agent sending it to me didn't even realise.

However although the DDR report from the lawyer I received for Lagoa was also fine, when I went out there and stood on the plot it was easily apparent that things weren't fine, which is why we decided not to market it.

Dotty · #5 09-06-2008, 03:59 PM

G.W ,

Well said! Rolling up the sleeves and getting stuck in is the best advice you can give.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

This "Due Diligence" cliche is another nonsense. A Solicitor cannot check if a Firm and/or their Associates or Agents are, might be or could be in Financial trouble sometime in the future. It could well be that a Solicitor dots every i and crosses every t, but he cannot and will not give you a gut feel on the market or the future. These developments like GNG and Lagoa may indeed have all the permissions, they also didn't plan (hopefully) to get into difficulties...but they allegedly did, so it seems, for whatever reason. And as Mitico says, he did his but his gut tells him others. You cannot just sit there and say "Due Diligence" this means nothing apart from covering your backs, it is real market information, proper knowledge and extensive in the market research. Even then, these developments seem to have (allegedly) big problems and many invested. Why, because they were unlucky, didn't properly evaluate things, didn't go there and smelt, saw and tasted and almost certainly believe the hype which is/was peddled about. There is no substitute for rolling your own sleeves up, not saying "They've done The Due Diligence" so it must be ok.

JMBroad · #6 09-06-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

This "Due Diligence" cliche is another nonsense. A Solicitor cannot check if a Firm and/or their Associates or Agents are, might be or could be in Financial trouble sometime in the future. It could well be that a Solicitor dots every i and crosses every t, but he cannot and will not give you a gut feel on the market or the future. These developments like GNG and Lagoa may indeed have all the permissions, they also didn't plan (hopefully) to get into difficulties...but they allegedly did, so it seems, for whatever reason. And as Mitico says, he did his but his gut tells him others. You cannot just sit there and say "Due Diligence" this means nothing apart from covering your backs, it is real market information, proper knowledge and extensive in the market research. Even then, these developments seem to have (allegedly) big problems and many invested. Why, because they were unlucky, didn't properly evaluate things, didn't go there and smelt, saw and tasted and almost certainly believe the hype which is/was peddled about. There is no substitute for rolling your own sleeves up, not saying "They've done The Due Diligence" so it must be ok.

Problem is not everyone has the time or wants to spend that much money to get it done and even if they did to get access to the number of developments which agencies do to be able to compare would take too much money and time for them. You yourself said once that you "drove up and down the north coast and saw no developments already under construction", whereas as an agent I know of loads of developments in the north coast of Natal already under construction and have visited a lot of them. Doesn't mean I'd recommend all of them, in fact I'd only seriously look at a couple, but I have a comparison to base my decision on.

robh · #7 09-06-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

This "Due Diligence" cliche is another nonsense. A Solicitor cannot check if a Firm and/or their Associates or Agents are, might be or could be in Financial trouble sometime in the future. It could well be that a Solicitor dots every i and crosses every t, but he cannot and will not give you a gut feel on the market or the future. These developments like GNG and Lagoa may indeed have all the permissions, they also didn't plan (hopefully) to get into difficulties...but they allegedly did, so it seems, for whatever reason. And as Mitico says, he did his but his gut tells him others. You cannot just sit there and say "Due Diligence" this means nothing apart from covering your backs, it is real market information, proper knowledge and extensive in the market research. Even then, these developments seem to have (allegedly) big problems and many invested. Why, because they were unlucky, didn't properly evaluate things, didn't go there and smelt, saw and tasted and almost certainly believe the hype which is/was peddled about. There is no substitute for rolling your own sleeves up, not saying "They've done The Due Diligence" so it must be ok.

Unfortunately not everyone has the amount of free time that you do to do that amount of research which is why we don't sell anything we haven't seen with our own eyes and met and researched the developer.

Golfingworld · #8 09-06-2008, 07:41 PM

In which case, where did the "Due Diligence" help all those that invested in the failing developments that are now out of money or in Administration? "DD" might tell you that everything is in place and that a Bank Guarantee is watertight, but it won't tell you about a downturn in flights, currency fluctuations, economic changes etc etc. Even if the Bank Guarantee is in place, just read the other posts on here about trying to recover deposits! "DD" probably said they were all "cast iron", but it didn't stop some of them failing before they started!

As for Thomson, I find it very hard to believe that a Winter 08 Programme is not now available for sale if it is going to happen. Remember that flights should start in October, only 4 months away!

Simple and easy way to confirm it is go to The Visual or Pestana and ask "Are Thomsons coming again this year"..they'll know!

Sorry, we couldn't find any holidays to match your requirements.This might be because we don't have any flights available for the dates you selected.

Thats the result of a Thomson Brazil search for Holidays, Oct-Dec 08!

Dotty · #9 09-06-2008, 07:51 PM

Hi Rob,

What do you mean research the developer,how would you know if a successful developer is about to be hit by major problems as in the case of various developments up and down the coast of Rio Grande Norte recently??
What about cases where building work appears to be cracking ahead and then suddenly stops and the investors have done as proposed their due dilligence ??

I think Mr Broad said in a previous posting that investors don't have the time to go backwards and forwards to a country because of commitments,well would you not have a commitment to a purchase overseas and want to visit frequently ?

I have never bought without seeing and feeling and have never been ripped off along the way,this has to do with not being arrogant ,standing on my feet
and looking with my eyes and using my senses.May be if people tried the same thing they would have promising investments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robh

Unfortunately not everyone has the amount of free time that you do to do that amount of research which is why we don't sell anything we haven't seen with our own eyes and met and researched the developer.

JMBroad · #10 10-06-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

In which case, where did the "Due Diligence" help all those that invested in the failing developments that are now out of money or in Administration? "DD" might tell you that everything is in place and that a Bank Guarantee is watertight, but it won't tell you about a downturn in flights, currency fluctuations, economic changes etc etc. Even if the Bank Guarantee is in place, just read the other posts on here about trying to recover deposits! "DD" probably said they were all "cast iron", but it didn't stop some of them failing before they started!

As for Thomson, I find it very hard to believe that a Winter 08 Programme is not now available for sale if it is going to happen. Remember that flights should start in October, only 4 months away!

Simple and easy way to confirm it is go to The Visual or Pestana and ask "Are Thomsons coming again this year"..they'll know!

Sorry, we couldn't find any holidays to match your requirements.This might be because we don't have any flights available for the dates you selected.

Thats the result of a Thomson Brazil search for Holidays, Oct-Dec 08!

Erm no, the DD on those developments said "stay away" - so the idea is that having done the DD, you can advise clients to invest elsewhere. That's how doing DD helps. For GNG it was the legal DD, for Lagoa it was the finall DD - visiting the site.