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  #11  
Old 26-06-2008, 07:12 PM
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Default Another Good Question

THE TRUTH IS SOUP DRAGON, THESE ARE LIVED IN BY LOCAL PEOPLE AND IN THE 30 + YEARS THE SCHEME HAS BEEN GOING THEY HAVE NEVER NOT BE LIVED IN AND RENTED. AND THIS IS ONLY AN EXTRA PRECAUTION BECAUSE THEY ARE ALWAYS RENTED!.

THE REALITY THERE IS AN UNDER SUPPLY OF THESE TYPES OF PRODUCTS IN THE MARKET. BECAUSE OF THE STRINGENT LAWS ON BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT IN URBAN AREAS AND THE COSTS OF LAND AND CONSTRUCTION.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Soup Dragon View Post
Goldberg Global. You say rents are guaranteed, even if untenanted. Please explain how the company providing the guarantee can afford to do so if property is untenanted.

The company has to generate sufficient revenue to pay the guaranteed rental and cover costs. Else the guarantee is only as good as the paper it is written on.
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  #12  
Old 27-06-2008, 07:22 PM
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Default

SERGIC
«GENERAL» TRANSLATION FOR GUIDANCE
ARTICLE 1 : OBJECT OF BASIC MANDATE
The mandate gives power to the “mandater” (Sergic), to manage the property and all rights under real estate law. The mandater has power for the following operations :
a) Managing of the property :
The “owner”, (the property owner), authorises the “mandeter” to collect all monies appertaining to the property & administration of the property - i.e. rent; charges; taxes etc.
The “mandater” will handle all the matters appertaining to the tax administration.
The “mandater” will apply all the laws appertaining to the property, “owner” and “tenant”.
The above comes into effect from the date of signature of the mandate.
The “mandater” is entitled to any interest accruing from monies placed in bank accounts.
The “owner” will make sure that the co-property insurance is up to date.
b). Finding tenant :
The “mandaters” pays for all the adverting etc. in accordance with law and decided with “owner”
All rentals by agreement of law article 67 decree n° 72-678 of 20.07.72.
Renewal of tenants agreement with existing tenant by agreement with “owner” only.
Not to accept tenants who wish to rent to other tenants.
The mandate is ended by 3 months notice of tenants agreement; whether by notice or expiry
To make sure all checks of property by bailiff are done at start and end of all tenant agreements.
c). Representation of owner :
The “mandater” represents the «owner» with the co-property of the building for voting etc. If changes to building are required it is paid by «tenant”, but agreed by «owner».
ARTICLE 2 - WORKS
The owner allows the “mandater” to make sure the property is kept in good condtition.
The “mandater” has obligation of results by civil code.
SERGIC
«GENERAL» TRANSLATION FOR GUIDANCE
ARTICLE 3 - RECOVERY OF BAD DEBT
The “mandater” gives guarantee of rental and is responsible for any damage or non-payment and damages.
The “mandater” has obligation of results by civil code.
ARTICLE 4 - OBLIGATIONS OF RESULTS OF «MANDATER»
The “mandater” has the obligation to pay the “owner” all the monies collected for the property, or the published “market value”, less his fees, irrespective if rented or not. And also between tenants if propery is vacant. This takes effect one month from signature of mandate, (or, on new build, on 1st day of calendar month of receiving keys).
The “mandater” has the right to increase the rent by market value at commencement of all new agreements.
The “owner” receives his monies on the 5th of each month.
ARTICLE 5 - SUSPENSION OF GUARANTEES OF MANDATE
The “mandater” has the right to suspend the contract for the following :
If the apartment/building is in an unacceptable condition and the “owner” refuses to modify.
“Force majeur”
If the “owner” forces the end of tenant agreement.
ARTICLE 6 : DEPOSITS OF GUARANTEE
The “tenant” must place 2 months deposit and guarantees by law for damage and rent, as required by law, in closed bank account.
ARTICLE 7 : ACCOUNTS
The “mandater” will send a full account of all monies received/spent monthly.
ARTICLE 8 : DURATION OF MANDATE
The mandate is for 3 years from occupation of first contract, and is renewable by agreement with each new contract. Three months notice prior to end of contract is required by registered letter.
At end of mandate the “mandater” will cease to have any further obligation.
If the “owner” dies, the mandate passes to next of kin who become the party responsible.
ARTICLE 9 : DOCUMENTS
The “owner” must provide first 4 pages of title deed and bank details
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  #13  
Old 29-06-2008, 11:18 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldberg Global View Post
The best buy to let in my opinion is France.

Why?
80% mortgages.
3 year guaranteed tenancies. Renewable. So you have guaranteed tenants for the duration of your purchase.

Is there any thing better?
Romania, 6% returns and better fiscal conditions. Capital gains tax will destroy you in France and you will be tied into it for to long, send me a message if you would like to discuss options.

David Howe LLB. LLM


INVESTMENT ROMANIA - Investment in Romanaia, Property management, Due diligence, Renting in Romania
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  #14  
Old 29-06-2008, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 698
Default Capital Gains Tax, minimised by longer hold

This product is not a 2 year flip, but recommended 5 to 10 years as the Capital gains tax tapers the longer you hold. It is advisable to buy and hold, an ideal pension fund product.

With reference to Romania and the yields being 6%, this could be true, we have partners who say the same. But then we do the reality check, with Romanian friends, the yields to sales prices are out of kilter, with NO GUARANTEES on rents.
These are WITH RENTAL GUARANTEES AT 6%. Romania is not! There are very few places around the world with this level of protection and security. To date we have not found any where else. France is a very exceptional market.

One other contrast between France and Romania. FRANCE IS A REGULATED AND LICENCED REAL ESTATE MARKET WHERE YOU NEED TO BE QUALIFIED TO SELL PROPERTY. Romania is a free for all, slightly backward real estate market, with contentious title issues, land registry, alot of cowboy operators. So for the more risk seeking, higher risk, possibly higher return, though no guaranteed, then voila, enter Romania, where we will help you.

For solid returns, leveraged funds, GUARANTEED RENTAL INCOME, SAFETY, a longer term investment, ideally 10 years plus (so all your profit is not eaten up by real estate commissions, legal fees, some small taxes), then FRANCE IS VERY GOOD.

And when you compare Romania to France, MY PENSION FUND MONEY will be on the country MOST VISITED IN THE WORLD, with a completely CLEAN AND TRANSPARENT REAL ESTATE MARKET, with the most TOURISTS per year, with an under supply in certain areas, with very hard planning laws to restrict supply and keep prices rising.

SOME DOCUMENTS BELOW TAKEN FROM THE INTERNET, PLEASE USE A PROFESSIONAL TAX ADVISER WHEN ASSESSING YOUR TAXES OR REGULATED FRENCH PROFESSIONAL.

Romania is here to stay, but as mentioned my pension fund seeks steady and consistent returns over the long term, rather than casino style investing in certain emerging markets. I know Romania through very close contacts, and would prefer the stability and safety and western standards of the worlds most visited tourist destination for my pension fund money.



France
Capital gains tax is a flat 16%, with an annual exclusion or allowance of €5600. Residents pay an additional 11.6% 'Social Charges', non-residents are not liable to this, there is a 15 year taper relief. However, in some specific situation tax can be reduced or eliminated (such as selling one's principal private residence).



From French Entree

If you are subject to capital gains tax on a property sale, how is the tax calculated ?

The basic rules are that the purchase price can be revalued, by purchase and sale costs and any major renovation bills, although there is now no inflation allowance. The resulting figure is subtracted from the sale price to calculate the taxable gain.

The gain is then taxable at a set rate of 16%, for European residents, with an a extra “social tax” ( a form of National Insurance contribution) of 10% ( rising to 11% this year) for French residents. Anyone who is not a resident of a European state will pay a set tax rate of 33%.

However, the conditions of acceptance of “renovation work” are very stringent. This must be carried out by a registered French artisan ( with appropriate invoice) and invoices for materials you have purchased yourselves are not allowed.

Unfortunately, the previous possibility that you could have an “expert evaluation” of the work done, instead of producing invoices, no longer exists, so capital gains, for the “bricoleurs”, who have done all the work themselves, is now much more of a problem.

Moreover, if you are non-resident of France, you are obliged to appoint an official “tax representative”, who is responsible for calculating and paying the tax on your behalf. Our experience of certain of these organisations is that they are expensive, uncommunicative and act more like tax inspectors, than your own “representative”.

Even so, all is not lost, since there has always been a significant allowance given for the length of time you have owned a property, which has seen major changes this year :
There is no allowance for the first 5 years of ownership, but every year, from then on, allows you 10% off your capital gain, with the result that a property owned for more than 15 years is free of Capital Gains Tax.

Whatever your situation, these rules show that the tax position of a British resident in France is always going to take some understanding. Taking professional advice has become even more important.

Rupert Holderness
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  #15  
Old 30-06-2008, 03:10 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldberg Global View Post
This product is not a 2 year flip, but recommended 5 to 10 years as the Capital gains tax tapers the longer you hold. It is advisable to buy and hold, an ideal pension fund product.


I am curious why it would be an ideal pension fund and why you do not say what your taper is, it could also be a massive burden


With reference to Romania and the yields being 6%, this could be true, This is true, but not for those people who have bought of new found foreign experts, our clients will gladly endorse us n thiswe have partners who say the same. But then we do the reality check, with Romanian friends, If you have a tooth ache do you go to a friend? Try using someone qualified and an authority in the market not a friend who like everyone in Ireland and the UK for the last 10 years said property was to expensive when they did not understand the demographicsthe yields to sales prices are out of kilter, with NO GUARANTEES on rents. Good grief are you serios, GUARANTEES on rents have been one of the biggest cons in overseas property sales, any informed investor has saw the scams or the dilution of potential profit associated with the same. Good knowledge of the area and research is what is important as if you buy crap on day one this is all you will have to sell in your 5-10 years
These are WITH RENTAL GUARANTEES AT 6%. Romania is not! [b] I can get anyone a guaranteed rental return of 6% in Romania, this is very easy to do, but we prefer not to conduct such bussiness and just go for premium investments that generate this unaided There is no such thing as a guaranteed rental return in this world, you can have safe guards yes, but guaranteed, No!!!! Correct me if I am wrong here, but are you refering to French Lease Backs here, I would hate to think you would be endorsing such a poor scheme of Investment due to how the French government is and has been trying to off load theseThere are very few places around the world with this level of protection and security. To date we have not found any where else. France is a very exceptional market.

Why is France so exceptional?

One other contrast between France and Romania. FRANCE IS A REGULATED AND LICENCED And foreign agents do not act as intermediaries, thats like all this crap of being affiliated to or register to................. Investors are spending money and if we could get more to read sites like this perhaps it would become much more difficult for unscrupulos agents to deceive themREAL ESTATE MARKET WHERE YOU NEED TO BE QUALIFIED TO SELL PROPERTY. Romania is a free for all, slightly backward real estate market, with contentious title issues, land registry, alot of cowboy operators. There are no bigger cowboy operators than the British & Irish agents who deceived their own in places like Bulgaria and Spain and when it comes to deception lets look at the Multi National recognised outfits who are nothing more than market makers as we are now seeing in market realignment in Ireland and the UK, not to mention America, It is your own country men you should be more afraid of than the Romanian, I cannot get 169,000 for a house that is currently being sold by one of these agents from 355,000 So for the more risk seeking, higher risk, possibly higher return, though no guaranteed, then voila, enter Romania, where we will help you. I do not understand this sentance

For solid returns, leveraged funds, GUARANTEED RENTAL INCOME, SAFETY, a longer term investment, ideally 10 years plus (so all your profit is not eaten up by real estate commissions, legal fees, some small taxes), Come on, be fair tell us what the small taxes are?then FRANCE IS VERY GOOD.

And when you compare Romania to France, MY PENSION FUND MONEY will be on the country MOST VISITED IN THE WORLD, with a completely CLEAN AND TRANSPARENT REAL ESTATE MARKET, with the most TOURISTS per year, with an under supply in certain areas, with very hard planning laws to restrict supply and keep prices rising. Check your facts on France's demograhics, it is currently no bed of Roses

SOME DOCUMENTS BELOW TAKEN FROM THE INTERNET, PLEASE USE A PROFESSIONAL TAX ADVISER WHEN ASSESSING YOUR TAXES OR REGULATED FRENCH PROFESSIONAL.

Romania is here to stay, but as mentioned my pension fund seeks steady and consistent returns over the long term, rather than casino style investing in certain emerging markets. Then if you see this as casino style you should not be advising anyone as you should have the knowledge to adequate due dilligence and research to make an informed decisionI know Romania through very close contacts, and would prefer the stability and safety and western standards of the worlds most visited tourist destination for my pension fund money. Nothing like toursim to stablise a country, and I actually have my doubts that more people vist France than the USA with its weak dollar



France
Capital gains tax is a flat 16%, 3% in Romaniawith an annual exclusion or allowance of €5600. What is the exclusion?Residents pay an additional 11.6% 'Social Charges', non-residents are not liable to this, there is a 15 year taper relief. And this is where investors get caught, what happens if due to circumstances beyong his control he has to sell in 4 years? He is locked in with severe penaltiesHowever, in some specific situation tax can be reduced or eliminated (such as selling one's principal private residence). This is an investment not primary residence


From French Entree

If you are subject to capital gains tax on a property sale, how is the tax calculated ?

The basic rules are that the purchase price can be revalued, by purchase and sale costs and any major renovation bills, although there is now no inflation allowance. The resulting figure is subtracted from the sale price to calculate the taxable gain.

The gain is then taxable at a set rate of 16%, for European residents, with an a extra “social tax” ( a form of National Insurance contribution) of 10% [( rising to 11% this year) for French residents. Anyone who is not a resident of a European state will pay a set tax rate of 33%. Good grief 33% tax, are you insane, French leasde backs are about as much about investment as Dream oversea apartments in Sunny beach

However, the conditions of acceptance of “renovation work” are very stringent. This must be carried out by a registered French artisan ( with appropriate invoice) and invoices for materials you have purchased yourselves are not allowed.

Unfortunately, the previous possibility that you could have an “expert evaluation” of the work done, instead of producing invoices, no longer exists, so capital gains, for the “bricoleurs”, who have done all the work themselves, is now much more of a problem.

Moreover, if you are non-resident of France, you are obliged to appoint an official “tax representative”, who is responsible for calculating and paying the tax on your behalf. Our experience of certain of these organisations is that they are expensive, uncommunicative and act more like tax inspectors, than your own “representative”.

Even so, all is not lost, since there has always been a significant allowance given for the length of time you have owned a property, which has seen major changes this year :
There is no allowance for the first 5 years of ownership, but every year, from then on, allows you 10% off your capital gain, with the result that a property owned for more than 15 years is free of Capital Gains Tax. So correct me if I am wrong here 29.5% if you sell before 15 years and nothing thereafter

Whatever your situation, these rules show that the tax position of a British resident in France is always going to take some understanding. Taking professional advice has become even more important.


And a look else where maybe a lot more beneficial, I would see 6% in a bank account or saver scheme more attractive, what is discussed here is in my opinion about lifestyle living and in no way investment orientated

Rupert Holderness
Due dilligence is imperative to any property investment, people have sang so much about how good Germany was yet how many are aware of the fiscal repercussions. Greed to make money makes people buy property, what I would say to anyone is do your research thoughly as the day you buy is the day you sell and here we see a plan which necessitates 15 years commitment.

Can anyone afford to be tied in this long?

David Howe LLB. LLM

INVESTMENT ROMANIA - Investment in Romanaia, Property management, Due diligence, Renting in Romania
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2008, 03:59 PM
bhc bhc is offline
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Default Cannes or Romania

Having lived in France for almost 20 years and been involved in buying and selling here and the US.

Cannes is a great investment, but the rent will not cover the mortgage.
Prices will never crash there Im in Limousin where prices have rocketed in the last five years. They are coming down but nothing like the US.

If you have a good deposit Cannes is a good investment its always busy and there is a good demand for rental property.

I dont sell in Cannes thats a euro you owe me Mr Goldberg.

Who goes for a holiday to Romania you might have .000001% of the Romanian popualtion that could rent a property above the poverty line.

I think there is more Romanians in France and the UK than there is in Romania.
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2008, 04:51 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhc View Post
Having lived in France for almost 20 years and been involved in buying and selling here and the US.

Cannes is a great investment, but the rent will not cover the mortgage.
Prices will never crash there Im in Limousin where prices have rocketed in the last five years. They are coming down but nothing like the US.

If you have a good deposit Cannes is a good investment its always busy and there is a good demand for rental property.

I dont sell in Cannes thats a euro you owe me Mr Goldberg.

Who goes for a holiday to Romania you might have .000001% of the Romanian popualtion that could rent a property above the poverty line.

I think there is more Romanians in France and the UK than there is in Romania.
Good grief are you really so naive to think that investment properties are based upon tourism. This is the reason so many people will now get fleeced because they thing Dream Over Seas Properties represent investment.

Holiday properties have to be bottom of the pecking order in any investment portfolio.

As for Romania, study the demographics, retail revenue was 4 times the Eu average in the 1st quarter of 08.

Good grief I really cannot believe you can be so naive when it comes to investment.

David Howe LLB. LLM

INVESTMENT ROMANIA - Investment in Romanaia, Property management, Due diligence, Renting in Romania
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  #18  
Old 07-08-2008, 05:03 PM
bhc bhc is offline
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Default Get real

They are poor no they are really poor. Seen it all before. If its so good you will sell out.
Whats the average wage in Romania.
Just checked one carrot two potatoes and a cabbage.
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  #19  
Old 07-08-2008, 05:59 PM
bhc bhc is offline
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Default I was wrong

I just checked the average wage, wait for it its its 504 dollars a month.
Thats about £200 sterling.
I had a look on your site you have a house that you claim will return you 2000/3000 a months. Thats great
Who is going to rent it George Soros.
One last thing French capitol gains tax is not that bad.
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  #20  
Old 07-08-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhc View Post
I just checked the average wage, wait for it its its 504 dollars a month.
Thats about £200 sterling.
I had a look on your site you have a house that you claim will return you 2000/3000 a months. Thats great
Who is going to rent it George Soros.
One last thing French capitol gains tax is not that bad.
I can see by your mathmatics you intellect that you are indeed an intellectual and obiously totally Property is graced by the presence of a genuis. However, others might say there is a village missing an idiot.

You sir are the reason that people must do due dilligence before investing and when people do such due dilligence they can then make an informed opinion as to what they are doing.

The majority of property agents rely on the ignorance of investors who get blinded by greed, and in the process get deceived out of their hard earned income or life savings.

I can think of one particular less than reputable company that would love to have you coming on an inspection trip.

David Howe LLB. LLM
INVESTMENT ROMANIA - Investment in Romanaia, Property management, Due diligence, Renting in Romania
www.investnment romania.com
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