Lysos, I wanted your advice;

I've never played golf (but plan to learn) and have purchased a golf villa to be built into an 18 hole course with 2 other 18 hole courses on the same development.

I figured golfers with families would be attracted as there is masses to do for all the family on this site (for example a 500 shop shopping centre, endless kids clubs, theatres, cinemas, many sports complexes etc), which means the golfer has a good 'excuse' to come here as the rest of the family will be well catered for.

I did think some golfers would prefer just a hotel or perhaps an appartment, but hope there is also a villa market on such a facility laden site as mine.
Not only that, but I hope non golfers will be happy to stay in a golf villa as long as there its lots else to do plus an onsite beach

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Been investing abroad a few years. Always amazed people invest in places that produce just a few months rent per year

Investy, Where is this development ?. Does it have a wbsite ?.

Lysos its here

Le Jardin de Fleur | Home

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Been investing abroad a few years. Always amazed people invest in places that produce just a few months rent per year

Hi Investy,

Personal opinion:

The golf course looks very flat and uninteresting, and it will be a year or two before it's playable. However, as a holiday course it looks adequate.

Golfers don't play in isolation, it's usually pairs or foursomes, so you need a place big enough to house two families (assuming only one adult plays) or a group of golfers who want a villa rather than a hotel. Conversely, in my experience of Spanish courses, most of the properties are owned by non golfing Spanish families who simply want a holiday home with open views.

It will be too hot for golf in the summer so you are looking at two different markets, really, golf in the winter (I've played in Tunisia in the winter i.e. January/February), and the bucket and spade brigade in the summer.

The Belek area in Turkey I referred to is popular with families in the summer, with a huge beach and leisure facilities, when it is too hot for all but the keenest and earliest risers to play golf.

Personally, I don't see why the families who currently go to Spain, with it's established infrastructure, would transfer their allegiance to Morocco. Over supply of accommodation in both countries will keep rental prices down and golf courses are expensive to run wherever they are.

Journey times are important, but not just flight times; it's door to door that matters. My flight to Turkey was 4 hours, but a very quick transit of the airport and a 20 minute transfer meant that overall it took no longer than my last trip to Spain.

I hope your purchase works out (and you enjoy playing golf) but I personally feel that Morocco will turn out to be a poor investment (though not as poor as Bulgaria and Egypt).

Even though I rave about the golf in Belek, with 5 star hotel packages so affordable I wouldn't think of buying a property there.

Good luck, and I hope for the sake of all investors in North Africa, I'm proved wrong.

Lysos, thanks for the input, however I'm glad to report you are 100% wrong.

Moroccos Plan Azure resorts are'nt just 'any old resort' they are in a different league and offer masses of sports and leisure facilities - what development do you know that has 500 shop shopping centre, the biggest most modern marina in the Med, 3 x 18 hole courses (yet to be landscaped), leisure parks, many health spas (not 1 or 2, many), 19 club houses, private beach clubs, a very large hospital with international Doctors, a 7km onsite beach, 2 carrefour large supermarkets, 11 hotels (to feed villa owners with 30,000 per week potential renters next season) etc.

The lejardindefelur products are all 5 star gated luxury, with consierge, impeccable maintenance, aphitheatres for night time outdoor perfomances and endless other features. Users can use all the other facilities of the 11 other development within the site. I only paid £168000 for a detatched 5* villa with pool, garden, aircon, siemens kitchen etc. I reckon this site will have no competition from Spain or Portugal.
Thats the point, no competition - if you compare the extent of leisure facilities so it has to do well. Remember golf is only one feature and it is not too hot in summer, it gets cooling breezes and there will be 1.6million trees planted.

Please go to the Saidia resort in 2010 - I think you will find it jaw dropping, its already being coined as the Coted'Azure of Morocco.

I've been to Turkey and liked it a lot.

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Been investing abroad a few years. Always amazed people invest in places that produce just a few months rent per year

Hi Investy,

I respect your confidence, and if all the proposed infrastructure gets built, then as a self-contained resort in the sun, it will indeed be impressive.

However, all to often the promised amenities never get built or close for lack of support. Your own researches will have thrown up a couple of developments in Turkey and Spain that promised a lot, but delivered little.

Isla Canela in Spain has received a lot of investment, including EU funding, bur most of the apartments lie empty and over 90% of the retail premises are unlet. Islantilla, a large purpose built golf resort, features its own commercial centre which again lies mainly unlet. Almerimar is another example.

In Turkey, Barfa Sim and the Orient Palace Resort in Bodrum lured investors with grandiose promises,that failed to materialise; Peninsular Village seems headed the same way

Your purchase contract will make no mention of infrastructure; I know there is support at the highest level for this project, but if only 1/10th of the amenities are built I will be surprised.

However, I hope you are in a position in 2010 to say, "I told you so !".

Thanks Lysos,

I hear what you say but I think what makes Morocco different is that the Government and King set out with this plan in 1999. Its very meticulous and detailed and enshrined at the very core was this determination to specifically create year round resorts so as to avoid the failures seen in Spain.

A lot of big name hotles have already began building - indeed Spains Barcelo group has almost completed the largest N African hotel in the development and include it in thier Platignum range. Many international brands have already agreed to leases such as Gucci, Channel and Budha bars.

The local airport is having 25 brand new hubs built just for this resort and an American built multi million pound road just for this one resort is almost complete.

I wouldnt think the resorts you mention had a large brand new hospital, 11 hotels (all big named brand) or the Meds largest marina.

I'm an extremely cautious person so I think I've done alright with this one, we''ll see.

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Been investing abroad a few years. Always amazed people invest in places that produce just a few months rent per year

Thanks for your input Lysos

I agree that golfers go in multiples and therefore the villas won’t get too many rentals from golfers. (They want to be near the club house in hotels so they can just drop their clubs and hit the pubs without having hassle of cooking etc.) However, I think it will appeal as resale property to families with one or two golfers. In that event a family can go for their holiday and either squeeze both families into one villa or take two villas for the duration of their stay. (I think taking two villas for half the time will be permitted under the leaseback arrangement that most will have …. If not it’s a clause for buyers to consider adding.)

I noticed the courses were flat and feel that makes them less interesting. However, there are plenty of popular flat courses and the point is that those wanting to play golf will be able to do so and know that there is no shortage of other amenities nearby.

The Moroccan Government certainly looks to be well behind the development. This was a big consideration when deciding to invest.

Soup

I think a major plus about Saidia is that golf widows and thier kids get to use a resort with masses of facilities, which means the golfer gets to go away with the family AND indulge his own passion.

The golfer would have a harder time from the family were they to be marooned on a typical golf resort which has a handfull of facilities, a gym but not much else, whereas Saidia has the large beach, the amusement park, the lasrge shopping centre, the cinemas and so on.

This for me is THE main differententiating attraction of Saidia. It is'nt just another golf resort.

I took a look at Polaris world recently and yea there's a bit for the family to do but just no where near the attractions of Saidia all on one convienient, albeit large, site.

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Been investing abroad a few years. Always amazed people invest in places that produce just a few months rent per year

We may be agreeing Investy. My gut feel is that the golf villas are too far removed from the club house to have great appeal to golfers just wanting a holiday with their friends. The equation changes when the golfer is going on a family holiday or looking for a place in the sun with facilities to keep all the family entertained.