Peter

Any news on registrations by your customers. It's been several months since first owners moved in I think so someone must have done it by now.

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One of the lawyers on this forum has replied on the other related thread on registartion in Sharm - it would seem that there is a possible route but that you need to go back and ask more questions to be sure.


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Not to my knowledge. An Egyptian lawyer has recommended that the Developer registers all of the properties as this will be much cheaper than individuals doing it but this has not been done yet. I did mention this in answer to an earlier question.

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PROPERTY SHOP INC. International Property Brokers
EGYPT REAL - Your One Stop Shop for Hurghada Property

Peter et all

How would this work - as you know the system in Egypt requires the real apartment owner to be present to actually sign the "book" in the land registry office, or you have to give a Power of Attorney to someone to do this for you, which raises questions about the trust the owners have to place in someone that they have never met.

Since it is now 7 months since the first block was finished in Sahl (April 2007) it's disappointing that the develper has not "sorted" this yet.

Is there some sort of issue with the developer or the process.

Based on the "read count" for this thread I think that there are hundreds of people very keen to here about a real registration.


Has anyone else actually registered in Hurghada yet.

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If anyone has any questions concerning the registration of properties in Sahl Hasheesh or indeed on due diligence issues they should be referred to the following lawyer who has all of the relevant documents from the Developers and can advise first hand on property registration issues. He is an Egyptian lawyer, based in Kingston in Surrey, and will gladly answer questions over the telephone for interested parties. If his services are required for more than just simple questions he will of course make a charge but his fees are very reasonable. Any information I have previously given through this forum has come from Hamdy. He has visited Sahl many times and has all relevant information.

Hamdy el Sawy Tel. 0044 207 580 3206 Email: elsawylawyer@btinternet.com.

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PROPERTY SHOP INC. International Property Brokers
EGYPT REAL - Your One Stop Shop for Hurghada Property

Hi,

I've been living in hurghada for 4 years and have two apartments both of which are not registered. You have given a power of attorney, which is the way that the egyptians buy and sell their properties. It is all legal and safe, as long as you don't lose the paper!

You will find that most people do this. I don't really know why, and to me a power of attorney is something different to how it is used here. But this is how they do it.

If you don't want to be tied to keeping a place for 5 years, but understood that this does not apply to foreign investors, it is all done by the lawyers and is ok.

At the visa office I read that to have a residential visa, to come and go at will, you have to have bought a property to a value of at least 250,000 egyptian pounds, or it does not apply to you. That is roughly 25,000 gbp.

Buying through the estate agents is a more costly way of buying apartments here. The first I bought we heard through friends and got it for around 8,000 gbp. It took around 5,000 to put in a kitchen and bathroom, and another 4,000 to furnish it. It is now worth more than 25,000 gbp in just a year.

The second apartment we went with a co-operative. We knew someone again. We paid 2,500 gbp up front and then 400 gbp per month for 11 months and then a little extra cos the price of steel went up. I know this isnt available to a lot, but we paid around 7,200 gbp and it is semi-finished and we have a share in the shops that will be below. It will take at least 5,000 to finish it to a british standard. If you have an egyptian make the deals and talk to workers it gets done for a lot less. It is now worth double, not finished.

It took 18 months from start to finish, it was to take 10 months lol. Apparently after the bomb in Sharm there were a tightening in hurghada of workers here. A lot who work on the construction sites do not have papers given from their employers to be able to work here, it makes it cheaper to employ them, so if the police did checks and you didnt have the card to say you are employed here you were sent back to your home town. Hence most building work slowed down. But saying that, the uk developments seems to be progressing.

Semi finished means that the electrical work is done, walls are finished ready to paint, windows and doors are also fitted. Unfinished means everything has to be done because it is just bare bricks.

Hope this helps a little.

Thanks for your help - sounds like a risk thats worked out well.

Do you get any guarantee, or anything at all that would help if things went wrong at sometime in the future.


As you say, this is how it is done for Egyptian nationals which is not really what I am concerned about.

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With the Power of Attorney you can Register it with the Government as usual and pay the fees at anytime, or you can sell on to another buyer who has the option to do the same.

Guarantee I guess is for the building work? Yes it is guaranteed and we also know the person who was the contractor as a friend. His family is one of the major contractors and is working on another hotel in hurghada. They are not cowboys. I worked in the Legal Sector in England so I look into things carefully before I leap.

All I wished to point out is that if people are worried about having a property registered and then cannot sell for 5 years maybe the power of attorney way is an option. As I said you can always register it at anytime in the future.

I guess this is easier buying privately than with Developers from other countries.

I must admit that I didnt like the idea of power of attorney but did get legal advice from lawyers that deal with english and egyptian.

All you have to do if not buying a newly built property is to make sure that there are no debts registered on the property. The seller should list anything that is owing and you either deduct from the price and you pay, or you pay full price with it stated that he is paying all debts registered up to the date that it becomes yours. Believe me, you take them to court and if they don't pay those debts they will be put in jail until the debt is paid off. Any kind of fraud is not kindly looked upon, and the courts give them a chance to pay or they spend time in jail until paid, which no one wants to do.

It is a very different system to the English, and with doing conveyancing work, as well as litigation, I was very apprehensive.

Wish everyone good luck and good wishes and hope that if they do buy any kind of property, they will get many years of enjoyment and good holidays with their investment.

How do you find out about any outstanding debts on the land or an individual apartments if there is no register to look at.

I know about the "words" on the sale doc & POA have say that there is no debt, but that's not very safe.


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[quote=dave99;18722]How do you find out about any outstanding debts on the land or an individual apartments if there is no register to look at.

I know about the "words" on the sale doc & POA have say that there is no debt, but that's not very safe.


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If the POA says that there are no debts and the vendor also verbally says there are no debts, then you find out that electricity bill, water bill, telephone bill, or any other charges are charged to your property, (they will not be in your name until you go and change it at the companies) you have a signed legal document showing the date that you took over the property, also it states that there were no debts, but the companies prove that there are debts, the court will make the previous owner pay or they will go to jail. You are not responsible for these debts because it states that there are no debts on the POA.

If you buy the property and you undertake to pay the debts and take the property at a cheaper price (generally the price will reduce by the amount of the debt) then it will be in the POA that you agree to do this. Then you will have to pay the debts.

Also you will need your POA to change the electric, telephone etc., at the companies into your name.

When I took over this apartment, it had a few bills to pay,the owner admitted this, but we went to the companies and asked how much was owing and checked that the person told us the truth. He had told the truth, so it was put in the POA that this certain bill would be paid but that no other outstanding debts would be taken into consideration, and that the vendor would be responsible if it were found that debts are owing.

As you say, you sound okay because your POA states no debts, so don't be worried. If you did get told there are any, his name and address is on the POA, the government are stricter if any egyptian does anything illegal to a foreigner. Believe it or not, we have more power here than the egyptians. The police and courts will be hard on that vendor, egyptians mainly wont take a risk of being sent to jail for fraud against a foreigner. The government have made laws for foreign investment and all is in favour of the foreigner and not the egyptian. They cannot take our land or property away from us, which they could at one time, but they still could for the egyptian. etc etc.