But in Britain we expect people to conform to our way of life, then we go abroad and expect the locals to conform to our way of life too. We surely can't have it both ways. Do we want to move to Egypt and turn it into another version of 'home', as many tourists have done in parts of Spain? Do we want the tourist areas to stay Egyptian or turn into Costa del UK? I don't really understand why they should accept our culture and dress codes just because we're buying property there. We Brits are buying property worldwide - should they all accept our culture, while ignoring their own? (Sorry, don't wish to come on too strong!)

When I go abroad I live by the adage when in Rome.......................

Respect is a 2 way street and I would never knowingly do anything to upset local people in their own country, going about their business.

I absolutely agree with Isab; if you are in an all inclusive resort which is mostly Northern Europeans thats one thing but out in the town we should respect the local culture. This does not mean long black robes and veils, it just means covering up and not displaying too much cleavage or mini skirts. Whilst this may be commonplace in the West it can be a real 'come on' to local guys who are not used to it.

__________________
PROPERTY SHOP INC. International Property Brokers
EGYPT REAL - Your One Stop Shop for Hurghada Property

Isab.
Think you worded it better than me and I totally agree with you.

In Egypt the crime rate is very slim to none, and consequently violent crimes "they exist of course" are less than many other places. The most 2 prevalent crimes committed in Egypt "especially in tourism areas" are FARUD and Sexual Harassment.

I would speak a lot about the first category but this is another subject than the thread's topic, while when it comes to Sexual Harassment we must cover it both from the legal aspect and the social one.

A- Legal Side of Sexual Harassment in Egypt:

I. Ages for legal purposes
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Age of majority (legal age)

The legal age is twenty-one years (21) old according to Child Law n°12, 1996.

Age of consent for sexual activity

The Child Law n°12 determines the age of consent for sexual activity at eighteen (18) complete years old.

Age of consent for mariage

Sixteen (16) years old is the age of consent for marriage provided by the Child Law n°12.



II.Rape
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Sexual intercourse with a child involving violence

Article 268/1-2 of the Penal Code enters in application in the case of the practice of sexual intercourse with child involving the use of violence:

'every one that rapes a human being by violence or threat or attempted to do so is punished by penal servitude for 3 to 7 years.'
In the case the victim’s age has not yet reached full sixteen (16) years old or the offender is one of those involved in the second paragraph of Article 267 of the Penal Code, which deals with relatives of the child or all the persons who could have authority over a child, punishment may be extended to reach to the maximum limit of the penal servitude for a certain time.

Sexual intercourse with a minor under eighteen (18)

It is considered as a crime in accordance with Article 267 regardless of consent of the minor, and use of violence:

'Any person who rapes a boy or a girl minor, not yet full eighteen (18) years old, without using violence or threat, is to be punished by imprisonment.
If the victim is under full seven years or if the offender is one of those involved in the second paragraph of the article 267, punishment of penal servitude for a certain period of time is to be inflicted .'
Sexual intercourse with a child committed by a person related to the child, or having authority over the child

In that case the Article 267 of Egyptian Penal Code intensified penalties:

(i) 'Any person who copulates with a female without her consent is punished by penal servitude for life or for a certain period of time. If the offender is related to the child or responsible for the child’s upbringing or having authority over the child or serving her against salary or one of those previously mentionned, penalty of penal servitude of life is inflicted.


IV. Child prostitution
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Article 1 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'a) Everyone that incites another whether a male or a female to commit a crime of immorality of prostitution or assists him or her or paves the way for such an act to be committed and also everyone who uses, persuades or entices another for the purpose of committing an act of immorality or prostitution is to be punished by imprisonment for a period which is not less than one year and does not exceed three hundred pounds.

b) If the victim is a person who has not yet reached twenty-one (21) years, punishment is to be inflicted for a period that is not less than one year and doesn’t exceed five years besides a fine that ranges between 100 pounds and 500 pounds.'

Article 2 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'Punishment, stated in item (b) of the previous article, is to be imposed on:

1) everyone who uses, persuades or entices a male or a female person with the purpose of committing an act of immorality or prostitution by way of deceptions, force, threat or misuse of power or by any other means of coercion.

2) everyone who retains by any of these means a male or a female person against his will in an immorality or prostitution spot.'

Article 3 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'Everyone who incites a male person, not yet twenty-one (21) years old or a female person, any age, to depart the country or facilitates the departure or uses or accompanies him or her abroad to be engaged in acts of immorality or prostitution -

Everyone, as well, that assists such an act to be committed, while knowing, is to be punished by a term of imprisonment that is not less than one year and is not to exceed five years and a fine ranging between 100 pounds and 500 pounds.

The maximum period for the term of imprisonment is seven years in case the crime was committed against two or more persons or in case it was committed by any of the means indicated in item (1) of article (2) other than the stated fine.'

Article 4 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'The penalty to be inflicted as regards the 3 cases mentioned above is imprisonment for a period ranging between 3 and 7 years, this is to be carried out in case the prejudiced person is under sixteen (16) years old; or the wrongdoer is a relative of the victim or a person who is responsible for raising or taking care of him; or who has authority over him; or a hired servant working for the wrongdoer, or for any of the above-mentioned persons.'

Article 5 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'Everyone who helps or facilitates the entry of a person into the A.R.E. to commit acts of immorality or prostitution, is punished with imprisonment for one up to five years and a fine ranging between L.E. 100 and L.E. 500.'

Article 6 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'A person will be punished with imprisonment for 6 months up to 3 years:

a) if he helps a female person to practise prostitution, even by spending money;

b) if he exploits, by any means, another person’s prostitution or immorality.

The punishment to be imposed is imprisonment for 1 up to 5 years, if the offence is linked with any situation mentioned in article 4 of the Law N°10.'

Article 11 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'Every exploiter or manager of a public place or any place of entertainment, or any other place opened for the public using persons practising immorality or prostitution, for the purpose of facilitating the practising of such wrong acts, or exploiting persons in propagandising the place, is punished with imprisonment for up to two years, and a fine up to L.E. 200.

If the wrongdoer is one of the persons referred to in article 2 (a relative or a person responsible or having authority over the victim), the punishment is imprisonment for 2 to 4 years and a fine ranging between L.E. 200 and L.E. 400.

A sentence is to be issued stating the closing of concerned place for a period not exceeding 3 months; this closing becomes final and decisive in case of recurrence.'

Article 14 of the Law n° 10, 1961 on 'Combating of prostitution, incitement and its encouragement'

'Anyone who publishes by any means of advertisement a call implying a temptation for practising immoral acts or drawing attention to them, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding 3 years and a fine not exceeding L.E. 100 or any of said punishments inflicted upon him.'



V. Child pornography
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Article 178 of the Penal Code n°58 of 1937

'A punishment of imprisonment for 2 years and a fine from 20 to 500 L.E. or one of these punishments shall be imposed on anyone who:

manufactured or possessed -

printed materials, manuscripts, advertisements, relieves, engraves, manual or photographic drawings, symbolic signs or any other material or photographs violating public morals;

- in case this manufacture or possession was intended to trafficking, adhesion or exhibition.

The same punishment shall be imposed on anyone who:

imported, exported or transferred by himself or by any other person any of the above-mentioned materials.
Issued an advertisement, publicly exhibited, sold, rented, offered for sale or for rent, even though this was unpublicly effected.
Publicly and by direct or indirect means forwarded, even though free of charge and by any means, any of the above-mentioned material.
Distributed or handed over with intent to be distributed, by any means, any of these materials.
Discretely distributed any of these materials, even though free of charge and with intent to corrupt morals.
As well as the fore-cited punishment is to be inflicted to anyone who:

publicly delivered immoral songs, shouting or speeches.
publicly seduced committing debauchery or issued advertisements or messages of any expressions.
In case of recidivism the punishment shall be imprisonment and a fine without violating article 50 of this Code.'

Article 89 of the Law n° 12, 1996, called 'Child Law'

'It is prohibited to publish, exhibit or circulate any arranged or audio prints or artistic classifications on children that excite their inner instincts or increase their mal-behaviorism that violates values of society or that encourages their delinquency.

With non violation of any more severe penalty that is stipulated by another law, penalty is to be imposed on the provision of the previous paragraph with a fine that is not to be less than L.E. 100 and is not to exceed 500 pounds and the violating prints or classifications must be confiscated.'

Article 116 of the 'Child Law ' n°12, 1996

'By preparing the child for practising such an act, assisting, inciting or facilitating to him or her committing such an act by any means, even if delyquency did not actually happen, punishment is to be for not less than 3 months in the case the offender use with the child any means of coercicion or threat or the offender was the relative of the victim or responsible for the victim’s upbringing or the victim was handed over to him by virtue of law.'

Source: Sexual Offences Laws - Egypt




B- Social Side:

1- Sexual Motive:

Unlike England and some other countries, Egypt is classified into various social classes. These classes vary significantly in education, ethics, and more. Exceptions in each class exist of course, but when it comes to lower classes, these people came from rural villages, Upper Egypt, or the suburbs and bad areas in cities. These people did not have proper education, and they have a misconception about foreigner ladies "as they have about many issues in life generally" for being EASY! Please note that these people are deprived from anything "feminine" since they were young. Girls in their family circle cover themselves from head to the toe, and these guys wish to marry "in order to fulfill their sexual needs mainly" since marriage is the only way they can get it where they live, but again marriage is way too expensive for them, so they keep being suppressed.

Then they come to Sharm or Hurgada or whatsoever, and feel very surprised in the beginning with the cultural differences and all, and they start to feel "hope" that they can fulfill their need, so they simply hit on anything walking, and say any cheap stuff just to hook up with a girl, any girl or woman! Especially a white one since Egyptians love whiter women and more especially blondes.

Some of these guys suffer a massive struggle inside of them, a struggle between the way they were brought up, the concepts they were raised up on, the understanding they have of the female, the religious teachings they had, and between their physical primitive need. Some of them "the majority actually" prefer to remain silent, in order to keep their jobs and new better lives, and also because they're afraid of what they don't know, while others act on these needs and try hitting on as many girls / women as possible, and when they succeed, they repeat it again and again and again.

2- Economical Motive

Some of these guys were raised on almost no ethics, and the misconceptions they're full of prevail, and in such classes there's a dominant idea hat whoever would be able to "get money out" of a lady is a good deed to do, and a proof that she wants his "manhood" so badly that she is willing to pay money for it! Consequently these guys talk proudly in front of each other about how much money this and that lady spent on them, needless to mention that they might tend to even exaggerate! Such people need money, just money, and regardless of anything else, and this is exactly why in Sharm el Sheikh, and especially in certain well known places, you're likely to see a very non matching couple holding hands; a young "18 - 25" Egyptian boy, apparently poor and looks dirty, holding hands with a 50 something or even 60 something western lady, and you'd be able to recognize the nature of the 'deal' just by seeing them together. It looks just disgusting, but at the end of the day they understand what they want from each other!

It's even worse when betrayal takes big part of the relationship, like this case I'm working on, when this young good looking girl fell for that guy whom I refrain to give a description for on this forum since I don't want to say bad words, but let's just say he is dirty; internally and externally, they lived together for some few months, then they agreed to marry, so as soon as she went back to the U.K she transferred him funds to purchase the apartment they desire in her name, and this was - of course - without any transfer agreements, contracts...etc.

So the boy just took the money, went back to his village, bought a shop and a new car, and got engaged to a rural girl from his village, and bought her a lot of gold - with my client's money! - And he's now scared like a chicken to learn that some people are severely after him, but we'll see how this ends.


However, we can summarize motives behind sexual harassment as abovementioned; sexual and economical reasons.



Finally:

Egypt is FULL of decent people, as a matter of fact, but sexual offenders exist every where on the globe. And I strongly advise anyone who believes have had been subject of sexual harassment to report the police immediately, and make a report in English BEFORE they go to the police, and take a bilingual translator "preferably a lawyer" to write it down in Arabic, thenremember to take the report's number in the Tourism Police, since this number will change to another number in the main police station, and this new number will be always the number of the case. The report file - after investigations - will be sent to the prosecutor in order to undertake the juridical investigations and refer to a court session.

Do NOT take sexual harassment lightly please. These people must learn that there is a sanction for their stupidity, and for thse who feel mercy for these guys, you can relinquish the case at a later stage, but when they're taken by police to the prosecutor, this would teach them a harsh lesson and consequently this type of crimes will go less.

All the best,

Zeiad Yehia
Solicitor

Wow! What a detailed and very interesting post. Thank you for taking the time to compose and post it.

__________________
Roger
There are only three types of people in the world - those who can count and those who cannot.
Pandora's Box

You're really welcome Roger.

Firstly - the thread was initially about sexual harassment which occurs far more often in say Eygpt / Turkey etc. Now I agree that some women do walk around with showing far to much but lets be honest the haressment is directed not just to them but any western looking woman and in many cases girls underage.

Secondly areas being developed are in the main targeted not towards the local market but western europe market so I can't see why it is wrong for a female walking in a short skirt and a top even if it shows here belly.

For example here in Turkey many locations that have been developed next to small poor coastal villages would still be poor coastal villages if they had not been develpped to cater for the overseas market. As you say they can't have it both ways.

Most developments are constructed to cater for holiday homes so tourists will go and relax and enjoy themselves.

tourism is great for developing countries but lets not forget it works in negative ways too. more money for developers and tour companies, less for local people, lots of brits going over thinking there pounds is currency for treating the local people like second class citizens as if they owned the place.then and disrespecting the people and values. this subject is about sexual harrassment , look at all the sexual harrassment that happens in our own back yard. i personally think that if you are going to another country you go there to experience local life and people and that means you respect their culture, you respect their beliefs and you act accordingly.

theres always benidorm for those who don't give a damn .

When my girlfriend and I go to Egypt she covers up once we go outside of the hotel complex as not to disrespect the locals but with everyone she sunbaths around the pool/beach. She still gets the eyeball but all men do this!

She had her arsed pinched in a bazarr which upset her and she didnt tell me until we was back on the coach as I would of gone nuts!

You have to be wary wherever you are. Even in your local pub!

One thing we did notice was the amount of cabs that 'beep' and pull up or cruise next to you as you walk 'touting' for business.
My girlfriend noticed that local women with headscarfs did not recieve any attention and the next evening when we went out she wore a headscarf.

Not one cabbie bothered us! We assumed they thought she was a local or permament resident!!