''DOOMS DAY FOR PROPERTY''(moaner)

[stumbled]

The pound has once again touched 2 dollars, is this the begining of the end for the dollar???
With US stocks trying very hard to stay afloat, is another crash imminent??

With another Interest rate RISE a surity in the UK, are these the parallels to the crash of 1920's and 1980's??

What has all this gotta do with Dubai and its property market??

Well for one your dirham pegged to the dollar is dropping, with that goes ur capital gains made on your initial purchase, interest rates going up, recession in the west means less money for the westerners, meaning less tourism for Dubai, less investment in the field of property......

I must also stress that Europe and America, not to mention Asia are driving the economic dragon and it is roaring and pushing ahead breaking all records. But, these things can change so rapidly and quickly, as we have seen in the 80's and as recently as 2000(dot com).
The property gloom has happened in the US,and is it heading for drop in the UK property market?? who's next???

Or am i just sounding the sirens of the dreaded ''DOOMS DAY'' a lil too early????

comment.

[SSM]

The pound has once again touched 2 dollars, is this the begining of the end for the dollar???
Errrrr....yes.

With US stocks trying very hard to stay afloat, is another crash imminent??
Errrr....maybe

With another Interest rate RISE a surity in the UK, are these the parallels to the crash of 1920's and 1980's??
Errrr.....no

What has all this gotta do with Dubai and its property market??
Errrr.....property growth may stifle???

I live in the UK. Crime levels are high (overcrowding prisons), education is expensive, housing is unaffordable (unless you purchase a garage and convert it to a studio), benefit system is abused and Gordon Brown is about to become PM...arrrghhhh! The buy-to-let heyday will come to a grinding halt and become the harbinger of a mini-crash.

I will eventually live in Dubai (from someone who never even contemplated this scenario two years ago).

Why may Dubai escape the property gloom? Because people will come to Dubai as long term residents and the population is increasing at a rate to justify large scale developments.
"If you build it, they will come."

[wayneis]

Or am i just sounding the sirens of the dreaded ''DOOMS DAY'' a lil too early????

YES Check out this informative daily letter about the US Dollar and how it trades every day EverBank: Daily Pfennig

The dollar / Dirham tie up will not last for ever however you have to see what has been approved what is on the drawing board and what ideas are being floated around to realize how serious the Dubai Government is about placing Dubai on the must places to visit.

Take a look at what has happened in Dubai over the last 8 years and you will realize that this is not ideal talk, Dubai will eventually be on the list of places to see and do.

Do a google on Dubai Bawadi Bawadi google Dubai land Dubai Holding unit Tatweer

[sleepy]

Dear SSM

What can I Say !!! You have actually spoken my mind , How Strange is that??
Since the beginning of this year I have sat back and looked at What are the reasons of staying in the U.K. I also came up with exactly the same theory as you. Also to add the states schools for the children in the U.K are also becoming so difficult to deal with & if were going to pay for them to go private then we might as well do that in a country that you like and know is safe. Same goes for the NHS.

May be We'll meet in Dubai one day!!!

[stumbled]

Originally Posted by sleepy

Dear SSM

What can I Say !!! You have actually spoken my mind , How Strange is that??
Since the beginning of this year I have sat back and looked at What are the reasons of staying in the U.K. I also came up with exactly the same theory as you. Also to add the states schools for the children in the U.K are also becoming so difficult to deal with & if were going to pay for them to go private then we might as well do that in a country that you like and know is safe. Same goes for the NHS.

May be We'll meet in Dubai one day!!!

Sleepy and ssm.

This isn't about migration from the UK.Certianly people in the UK always look for greener pastuers and have the theory that the grass is greener on the other side.
That fact that we dream of living in Dubai is because its a tax free haven and only one accessible to middle class UK citizens. If it was possible the whole of UK would shift to guernsey or the channel islands or monte carlo, but the fact remains they are beyond their means.
Dubai is A PLACE WHERE YOU ARE TREATED AS A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN.
That is the bottom line, how many of us in the UK would put up with that? we have rights here , ombudsman,trading standards etc etc. what about Dubai??
The education system you complain of, the security, NHS etc etc, i mean MOANERS are everywhere. NHS is a free system, once again its with what sort of GP you are registered, if you want to go private , its cheaper to have private treatment through your insurance in the UK than living in Dubai.
You speak of private education....well state schools i agree work with catchment areas and there are some fantastic ones if you buy your property in the right areas of UK. I suggest you check the fees of private schools in Dubai, which is almost the same as in a LONDON private school. Kids studying here in the UK come out more confident and have better support systems for their future developments, where as in Dubai you would have to spoon feed your kid till he gets a job, even that you might have to find him one.

Living in Dubai isnt free, you don't have a job or business you are out. If you intend living on the basis of your property then be prepared to spend a fortune on visa renewals and deposits every 3 years. You commit an offence and you could be denied an entry visa. I believe once you are contracted you are bound, if you quit your job without notice you get banned. I was also reading from these forums that a primary person named on the contract of property pays dhs 7k for a visa the rest of the dependants pay a deposit of dhs 10k plus the visa fee. So, a basic family of 4 pays about dhs 60k initially and 28k there after every 3 years??so that adds to like almost 1000 dirham/ month cost just to live in dubai??this is getting worse......

I don't know if people see parallels with singapore, the cheap workers from south asia built the city(country) for the super rich, similar to what is happening in Dubai.

Cost of living???????omgggggg, these figures of inflation are controlled by the government. Today Dubai is one of the most expensive cities to live in. In my opinion it is in the top 10, with Moscow no1 and London at 2, the figures of rental in Dubai are similar to the figures in these cities where as the pay is terrible in comparison, hence Dubai is becoming a place for the super rich,squeezing out middle class families who have lived there for 10-20 years and making people think twice before they take up offers,all you have to do is read the dubai forums on the net, how people are concerned over the cost of living ,accomodation,kiddies education, health, regulation, laws etc etc.The people in Dubai know it well .There was a time they could save from what they earned, today both spouses work and its impossible to make ends meet.


The other thing is if you are over 65 you are not given work visa in Dubai, so be prepared to retire with high insurance medical cost and visa renewal fees.I am not sure if you are given visa to retire if you are over 65, unless if you live as parents.


COMMET.

[SSM]

Stumbled
The fact which I’M looking at moving to Dubai is that if you have a skill, you will be welcomed in the country and have a better quality of life. If you don’t have a skill, then there is no benefit system to hide under which is one reason why the government can avoid paying taxes (not forever as I do believe taxes are necessary at some point). It’s accessible to anyone with a skill that is prepared to work and make something of their lives. If Dubai treated its citizens as second-class citizens, there would be no citizens. They would all return to their origins, but that isn’t happening.

A UK citizen pays 22% of wages (40% for high earners) in taxes……then roughly 9% for National Insurance……then let’s take about a 1000 pounds a year for council charges….let’s add on another 1500 pounds for maintenance fees (as there are more flats built than houses)…..petrol prices are highest in Europe (if not the world)…..transport in general is extortionate (we pay higher prices for a poorer service!)…phone prices have only just reached affordable levels….utility bills are some of the highest in Europe….etc…etc..etc. Which are why some people in the UK are BETTER OFF unemployed and claiming benefits!!!! What a strange lesson the UK is providing for the rest of the world. Let’s hope nobody notices…oh no…too late…everyone’s already here!

I know at least half a dozen of my friends who have moved to Gerrards Cross, but who are now considering moving to places like Dubai. If the best places in the UK cannot persuade the rich to stay, then what hope is there for the rest of us?
You state “Kids studying here in the UK come out more confident and have better support systems for their future developments”. Tell that to all the kids with ASBOs and pregnant teenagers who hard working citizens support through taxes!
Fees for schools may be on a similar scale to the UK, but the QUALITY of education in Dubai far exceeds the UK. Money attracts the best of the best.

Squeezing out middle class families??? Haven’t the Russians already done that to everyone living in central London by driving up house prices? Only the upper class can afford them (although I always thought the UK was a classless society). It’s happening on our very own doorstep. Just like the UK, in Dubai there will always be affordable housing. Unlike the UK, Dubai will not tolerate crime which is something you fail to mention.

The UK has centuries of experience of running a country (and being at the forefront of economical, technological and industrial advances for many years), but somewhere along the development stage they stalled, remained in third gear and are running out of ideas (although squeezing over 20 billion from phone companies was a laugh and a half). Dubai is the product of the last 20 years and they have a lot to learn but are slowly getting there. The world is looking at Dubai, some are trying to imitate it, some envy it but everyone marvels at it.

P.S. If you do come from the UK to Dubai, then you’ll be classed as a non-domicile. That’s where the UK will pay for your retirement in style.

[stumbled]

Originally Posted by SSM

Stumbled
The fact which I’M looking at moving to Dubai is that if you have a skill, you will be welcomed in the country and have a better quality of life. If you don’t have a skill, then there is no benefit system to hide under which is one reason why the government can avoid paying taxes (not forever as I do believe taxes are necessary at some point). It’s accessible to anyone with a skill that is prepared to work and make something of their lives. If Dubai treated its citizens as second-class citizens, there would be no citizens. They would all return to their origins, but that isn’t happening.

A UK citizen pays 22% of wages (40% for high earners) in taxes……then roughly 9% for National Insurance……then let’s take about a 1000 pounds a year for council charges….let’s add on another 1500 pounds for maintenance fees (as there are more flats built than houses)…..petrol prices are highest in Europe (if not the world)…..transport in general is extortionate (we pay higher prices for a poorer service!)…phone prices have only just reached affordable levels….utility bills are some of the highest in Europe….etc…etc..etc. Which are why some people in the UK are BETTER OFF unemployed and claiming benefits!!!! What a strange lesson the UK is providing for the rest of the world. Let’s hope nobody notices…oh no…too late…everyone’s already here!

I know at least half a dozen of my friends who have moved to Gerrards Cross, but who are now considering moving to places like Dubai. If the best places in the UK cannot persuade the rich to stay, then what hope is there for the rest of us?
You state “Kids studying here in the UK come out more confident and have better support systems for their future developments”. Tell that to all the kids with ASBOs and pregnant teenagers who hard working citizens support through taxes!
Fees for schools may be on a similar scale to the UK, but the QUALITY of education in Dubai far exceeds the UK. Money attracts the best of the best.

Squeezing out middle class families??? Haven’t the Russians already done that to everyone living in central London by driving up house prices? Only the upper class can afford them (although I always thought the UK was a classless society). It’s happening on our very own doorstep. Just like the UK, in Dubai there will always be affordable housing. Unlike the UK, Dubai will not tolerate crime which is something you fail to mention.

The UK has centuries of experience of running a country (and being at the forefront of economical, technological and industrial advances for many years), but somewhere along the development stage they stalled, remained in third gear and are running out of ideas (although squeezing over 20 billion from phone companies was a laugh and a half). Dubai is the product of the last 20 years and they have a lot to learn but are slowly getting there. The world is looking at Dubai, some are trying to imitate it, some envy it but everyone marvels at it.

P.S. If you do come from the UK to Dubai, then you’ll be classed as a non-domicile. That’s where the UK will pay for your retirement in style.

SSM, you certainly pick alot of negativity , for a country that has a benefit system, free medical and free education.

This is a country of 60million people in comparison to 2-3 mil in Dubai??
Look how much good this country does for the majority why look at the minority?? Similarly, Dubai is full of expatriates, that means foreign workers who come there and work for 20-30 years and they have to go back HOME!!
Similarly, even if you are illegal in the UK and can prove you've lived there for 15 years they give you a citizenship or if you work and contribute towards the TAXES for 5 years you get your CITIZENSHIP,would you get that in the UAE?answer is nope, why cause that country is for its locals, that means you are a second class citizen there. You need a partner to start a business unless you are in the freezone. Women cannot even sponsor a maid, they don't have any rights, if you as a male ,marry a local citizen you don't becoma a local male.
How many examples do you need to be convinced one is a second class citizen in the UAE??Have you found out what morgage facilities they have?or medical facilities COMPARED TO THE EXPATRIATES??
Remember nothing is free, Dubai's cost of living is one of the higest in the world thats indirect taxes for you in the form of inflation. For IC(international city) THERE IS A COST OF 10.5DHS /SQ FT , if i am living in a house of 4000 sq ft, with a garden in the UK then i would pay 42,000 dhs in maintanence cost alone thats £6000 a year . If i am paying currently £1600 council tax i am getting away on the cheap. My children go to Grammar schools, which is one of the best education systems in the UK and for FREE!! FOR 2 kids that would be about £13,000 in fees in dubai EXAPLEof a british school Beacon Education - Beacon. I don't know what part of Uk you live in, but there has been 22,000 new community police employed on the beat in london alone, every secondary state school has 2 -4 police officers outside when kids leave school to avoid any riff -raff and bullying if any, free transport for under 16 year olds....how many pluses do you need??? Medical is free and is still good ihave had both my kids born here and the facilities were bloody good!! THESE ARE PAID BY TAXES PAID BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME, what do you get for your maintanence charges besides a lil greeny in DUBAI, extra parking????? people are poorer today in Dubai cause of living costs,ask any locally working expatriate.

Lastly the skillz you speak of have no value in Dubai, they employ plumbers,wood cutters, engineers, doctors, computer programmers or networkers for a pittance from India and Pakistan, to be honest even they don't flock to dubai anymore as they have better opportunities in their own countries and atleast they have their RIGHTS AND A HOME there.

No one is looking at dubai, the fact is Dubai is picking the best examples from the world and trying to immitate it out there. Yes, no doubt the other Arab states are certainly trying to copy Dubai, remember its still an experiment, no one has yet seen a boom and burst economy and recovery.

What else you want me to point to??weather? over 45 degrees. Air condition living....

I feel if one is doing well and has the SKILLZ then there is no place like the UK. This place gives you several advantages when you plan your finances and your taxes, it is difficult for people who are on the border line and struggling to make a good living. This place(uk)PAYS one of THE HIGHEST minimum wage in the world.

Have you asked why the Americans don't buy an investment in Dubai??well they are taxed on their world wide income, welcome MR.Gordon Brown, he surely is talking of bringing that to the Uk CITIZENS who use the non-domicile loop to avoid taxes, i SAY BRING IT ON, LET THEM APPLY TO BECOME UAE CITIZENS.lol

[wayneis]

Stumbled valid points Dubai is not a tax free haven, many indirect taxes paid here and inflation is being driven mainly by internal factors such as housing,schooling.

Been here nearly 8 years, and I chose to live here, am able to generate more revenue than back home however the reality is that any day in the future you could be put on a plane and sent home....

Yes you are treated at times like a second class person living in a third world country however we all know this and plenty of examples can be found on the net to support this, so it should be no surprise when and if you decide to reside in Dubai.

On the whole though Dubai is very liberal place to reside, and for the main part the authorities leave you in peace.

Even though there are many negative points about Dubai for myself at the moment the positives out way the negative aspects.

This goes also for investing in Dubai.

[SSM]

Stumbled, you certainly pick alot of negativity , for a country that has zero taxes, low crime and is, well,changing the world.

There are more police on the streets because there is more crime....wake up, that's bad not good. Every other person is becoming a community support officer. Supply is simply meeting demand.

The UK has a benefit system, free medical and free education. If you were forced to pay partly towards these services, then I'm sure more people would get off their backsides and work. The point I'm making is that these free services attract the worst of the worst and give no incentive for people to work. If the system was is so brilliant, why haven't other countries copied it?

I don't see many UAE citizens flooding illegally down the channel tunnel to gain entry into the UK, but I do see more and more people leaving the UK to move to the UAE.
Weren't asians and blacks treated like second class citizens when they moved to the UK? That's why equal opportunity laws were created. UAE have laws for its citizens to abide and they seem to work but I have no doubt they will change when required. Dubai certainly needs foreign investors to survive. People go to Dubai for a better quality of life. The ongoing change in self-perception by Arabs will be a key factor in it's success.

UAE doesn't care if Americans do not buy in Dubai, the UAE and Saudi's OWN about 5-10% of American assets. It's countries like the UAE that are holding the dollar up. They have the upper hand. This small country will not be pushed around by America and will certainly not be it's puppet.

If I'm living in a 4000 sq ft house, then I would expect to pay high maintenace charges. Maybe the UK should adopt this strategy rather than lumping a 2000 sq ft three bedroom house in the same bracket as a 4000 sq ft three bedroom house. As I've already stated, I expect these charges and other laws to change as the country is in a development stage of less than 20years.

People are poorer in Dubai. Man, people are going bankrupt in the UK! IVAs, bankruptcies and soon mortgages will be at their highest levels ever. Free medical, education and benefits will not save their backsides. A recent survey in the UK found 3.8 million children live in poverty in the UK today, thats one in three children! So much for the minimum wage.

The best laugh is that after paying taxes and contributing to your pension for the best part of 50 years......you're told the pension fund has been raided or the top brains of britain got their sums wrong. At least in Dubai, the criminals will be subjected to a fitting prision sentence rather than a slap on the wrist, 2 years community service, free medical, free education and benefits galore!

[buddy]

Originally Posted by SSM

Stumbled, you certainly pick alot of negativity , for a country that has zero taxes, low crime and is, well,changing the world.

There are more police on the streets because there is more crime....wake up, that's bad not good. Every other person is becoming a community support officer. Supply is simply meeting demand.

The UK has a benefit system, free medical and free education. If you were forced to pay partly towards these services, then I'm sure more people would get off their backsides and work. The point I'm making is that these free services attract the worst of the worst and give no incentive for people to work. If the system was is so brilliant, why haven't other countries copied it?

I don't see many UAE citizens flooding illegally down the channel tunnel to gain entry into the UK, but I do see more and more people leaving the UK to move to the UAE.
Weren't asians and blacks treated like second class citizens when they moved to the UK? That's why equal opportunity laws were created. UAE have laws for its citizens to abide and they seem to work but I have no doubt they will change when required. Dubai certainly needs foreign investors to survive. People go to Dubai for a better quality of life. The ongoing change in self-perception by Arabs will be a key factor in it's success.

UAE doesn't care if Americans do not buy in Dubai, the UAE and Saudi's OWN about 5-10% of American assets. It's countries like the UAE that are holding the dollar up. They have the upper hand. This small country will not be pushed around by America and will certainly be it's puppet.

If I'm living in a 4000 sq ft house, then I would expect to pay high maintenace charges. Maybe the UK should adopt this strategy rather than lumping a 2000 sq ft three bedroom house in the same bracket as a 4000 sq ft three bedroom house. As I've already stated, I expect these charges and other laws to change as the country is in a development stage of less than 20years.

People are poorer in Dubai. Man, people are going bankrupt in the UK! IVAs, bankruptcies and soon mortgages will be at their highest levels ever. Free medical, education and benefits will not save their backsides. A recent survey in the UK found 3.8 million children live in poverty in the UK today, thats one in three children! So much for the minimum wage.

The best laugh is that after paying taxes and contributing to your pension for the best part of 50 years......you're told the pension fund has been raided or the top brains of britain got their sums wrong. At least in Dubai, the criminals will be subjected to a fitting prision sentence rather than a slap on the wrist, 2 years community service, free medical, free education and benefits galore!

Same sentiments SSM