Originally Posted by oregon woodsmoke

Buffalo would not be my first choice. There is a reason that property is cheap-- that's because nobody wants it.

If you buy for a low enough price, the investment might work well for you. I suggest that you go and look, and be sure to have more than 1 real estate office take you around to show you properties. That will protect you against an unscupulous salesman that thinks foreign investors have lots of money and should pay extra high prices.

Originally Posted by thom123

Hi,

I went over to Buffalo around May this year having heard of the yields on offer. I have since bought 4 places there.

I've got mixed thoughts so far. Buying them took around 6 months. That was partly coz of the sub-prime crisis which meant that the lender pulled out just before completion.

The whole process of getting finance and purchasing was painful tbh. The US and, in particular NY state, seems obsessed with paperwork. I guess it's coz it's a litigous society over there.

Buffalo itself has its nice areas (very nice, in fact), some not so nice ones (very not nice, in fact) and some inbetween. It's the inbetween ones that have investment potential. Having a good set of contacts out there is essential to finding them.

The yields you see advertised of 20% or 30% are realistic. Mine all yield between 25-35%. But this is the gross yield and expenses are higher there than investing in the UK. There are higher finance charges and lots of taxes. I personally wouldn't buy anywhere there with less than a 25% yield.

I've held the places for a couple of months now and, income wise, I'm down because I've had to pay out for repairs. I'm hoping that these are just the initial teething problems rather than what I can expect going forward. It's too early to tell whether Bufflao will be a good investment for me. I have mixed feelings so far, but haven't ruled out further investment.

I'm thinking of setting up a site about my experience of property investment in Buffalo. If you're interested in joining it, send me a message.

HTH,
Matt

Originally Posted by LeCorbeau

Hi - I am new here and certainly new to buying property abroad (I am UK based)

Has anyone seen the following:

"an American Tragedy - Real Estate News" (sorry, as I am new here I am not allowed to put links in, I am sure you can find this via google)

they describe what has happened to one Australian investor in Buffalo, Kathy:
The first property, for which Kathy paid US$79,500 had been bought by James Graham for US$37,000. The second property, for which Kathy paid US$51,900, had been bought by James Graham for US$11,000. Yes, that's right, eleven thousand dollars - and just two weeks before he on-sold it to Kathy for US$51,900. The third property, for which Kathy paid US$34,900, had been bought by James Graham for US$13,000. So, from just one Aussie investor (a single and seriously ill single mother), self-professed devout Christian James Graham made a quick gross profit of US$105,300 (which, in 2005, amounted to around $160,000 Aussie dollars).


see Reply by Dan Glushefski

(again, I can't put the link in)

the problem with property flipping in Buffalo must be so bad, that the Mayor of Buffalo issued a warning:


Learn about fraudulent flipping
(if you look up Mayor of Buffalo and Anti-flipping task force you will find the link)

WHY DOES FRAUDULENT FLIPPING HAPPEN IN BUFFALO?
Typically, in a city with a shrinking population such as Buffalo there are too many homes and not enough people to live in them. At its peak Buffalo had a population of nearly 600,000 residents who needed housing and supported businesses and services. Currently Buffalo has half the population, less than 300,000 residents, so there are too many houses and too many commercial properties. It is a simple case of supply and demand. In some areas of the City the supply of property is greater than the demand for property. This oversupply results in low property values in these parts of the city. Inexpensive housing combined with the possibility of high assessed value relative to the actual value, results in flippers seeking to purchase properties for quick resale or to use them as a tax shelter. As the practice of flipping has increasingly taken place, the City of Buffalo has become known as a place to buy cheap property.

and:

WHAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF A FLIPPED PROPERTY?
A typical scam of unethical property flipping involves:

A property valued at $15,000 is purchased for $10,000 by a person who claims to be an investor. Within six months the property is sold without any improvements for $20,000 to another person who claims to be an investor, and within another six months the property is sold without any improvements to an unsuspecting homeowner for an inflated value of $55,000. The seller works with an appraiser to fraudulently inflate the value of the property so that a mortgage can be obtained for $55,000 even though the property is still only worth $15,000. Within a few years the overpriced loan takes its toll on the homeowner, she has trouble paying the bills because she needed to invest in major repairs and her mortgage payments are not affordable because of a high or variable interest rate and hidden fees.

An example of a known flipped property in the City of Buffalo is 41 Loepere.
The short history of ownership of this property: 8/7/03 Lender takes over the property in foreclosure proceedings 10/17/03 Lender transferred the property back to HUD 3/22/04 An investor purchased the property from HUD for $3,500 6/8/04 An investor purchased property from the previous purchaser for $8,000 11/17/04 A current owner who purchased the property from an internet auction site for $21,500 41 Loepere is vacant, has been cited 14 housing code violations and is now for slated for demolition. The current owner has never appeared in court to face housing code violations.


A list with contacts that may be useful is on the mayors site

Strategies to make a sound investment in Buffalo
(again , I can't post the link)
you have links to check whether a real estate agent or home inspector is actually licenced, etc

any thoughts on this?
am I being paranoid?

Originally Posted by fred333

The Rochester area is older, but it is coming back.

Originally Posted by ***rnmagus

I bought a property through the Brennan's in Rochester.
I was due to buy another in Buffalo but it fell through because there was a charge on the title and the seller didn't clear it. As long as you have a decent attorney these things are spotted in advance as oppose to the horror stories.
The house in Rochester cost me a bit to refurb. I had a short term tenant who left after 2 months. I now have a reliable tenant who looks likely to be long term.
Gross yield is around 29%.
If you are planning on buying over there I would suggest a degree of patience. It took 6 months from completion to find a decent tenant.