Jardin de los Reyes Development in Spain - Page 20

rowlandsbb · #**191** 26-03-2008, 10:18 PM

Well I am not fully up to date with this forum but if anyone buys in Spain or elsewhere on a development which does not have 'full permits' then quite frankly they are asking for trouble!!
The chance to make a fat profit has to be balanced by the lack of security you have and 'in Spain' it is not like it used to be
Yes perhaps a bank guarantee for a while but many have found that getting money from banks is not easy on gambles such as this when it goes wrong
This is marketed in the fashion that used to be popular a couple of years ago before Spanish planning laws started to be enforced!!!
For serious experienced investors , there are much better investments in Spain even in a flat market
Putting your money on the Fav for the Grand National is possibly a' better bet'

andyk2 · #**192** 27-03-2008, 01:05 AM

Hi there,

I can´t believe that this post has been ongoing for over a year with the same incredulous comments from the uninformed. This post is intended to answer the ponts raised by Sean, but rather than keep it private, I feel it would benefit the forum if the answers were made available to all.

Sean - some of the points you raise relate to the initial release of 500 plots in October 2006. These were fully sold out some months ago, and a subsequent release of 100 smaller plots towards the rear of the development was made in November. These plots come with an insurance bond attached guaranteeing the deposits of investors until such time as definitive planning is confirmed - which may be as far as two years away (There is also a guaranteed buy-back attached). Investors on the original release have only paid part of the purchase price at present with further stage payments due on outline planning and definitive planning stages. Should approval be denied at either stage, MC Consulting will sell the total 11.000.000 m2 as rural land and have sufficient funds to fully repay all their investors. The land cannot be subdivided into individual plots until definitive planning is approved, and therefore it is impossible that investors will be left with a piece of land with which they "can do nothing".

The bank guarantee that was originally an option on the first release is not applicable to the current plots on offer. However, it covered the investors deposits until such time as outline planning was awarded. Thereafter, the land will have appreciated in value due to the uplift in status (from rural to urban) and should MC Consulting fail to get full planning permission at this stage, the land will be sold as above, with a full refund offered to investors.

The post in which I quote the possibility of there being a further 3.000 plots released (15th May 2007) was, at the time, a possibility. Subsequent events during the presentation stages to the town hall have decreed that there will be a lower density on the resort than originally forecast. In all there are 600 plots released, of which the original 500 will have the "1-in-10" resale (not buy-back) option after outline planning, based on a) the order in which the plots were reserved, and b) the willingness of the investors to resell their plot(s) at this stage rather than wait until definitive planning has been awarded. The remaining 100 plots have a guaranteed buy-back option when definitive planning is approved - these must be the ones you are looking at presently. In total 562 of the 600 plots have now been reserved.

I am not an expert on the Ley del Suelo, however I can shed a little light on the law, its rulings and its possible interpretation. The law was originally drafted in 1956 to preserve agricultural land. Its current amendments are to protect the environment from over development, and JDLR has conducted environmental studies to back up its application as well as introducing some very "green" initiatives in its construction. Furthermore, the law allows construction on land that is intended for residential tourism or where an existing building is in place. The plans for JDLR include restoring the old vineyard and cortigo and creating a winemaking museum on the site as well as several social projects for the residents of Almansa and residential accommodation. In my opinion (and I have to point out here that I do not work for MC Consulting, Property Showrooms or IPIN any longer) the developers would have not continued to allocate resources to this project when they have other, more straightforward projects on which they could concentrate, if they felt that the complex was not going to receive the first stage of planning permission - let alone the permission for the rest of the project.

Irrespective of the outcome, as I have mentioned above, the investors on the current release are guaranteed their money back by way of an insurance bond, and those who invested previously will have guarantees in place, either by Banco Guipozacoano or by the subsequent sale of the land.

As a final note, the outline planning is hoped to be in place by the end of May this year. Thereafter, any plots remaining on the current release will be withdrawn and all future marketing will concentrate on the resale of the plots from phase 1 where the investors wish to sell and pre-licence construction projects.

I hope this brings everybody up to speed on the project and if there are any further (genuine) comments or questions, please post them here.

Have a good night

Andy

law · #**193** 27-03-2008, 11:23 AM

[quote=andyk2;40081]Hi there,

This post is intended to answer the ponts raised by Sean, but rather than keep it private, I feel it would benefit the forum if the answers were made available to all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

more than thanks Andy.......

SeanY · #**194** 28-03-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyk2

Hi there,

I can´t believe that this post has been ongoing for over a year with the same incredulous comments from the uninformed. This post is intended to answer the ponts raised by Sean, but rather than keep it private, I feel it would benefit the forum if the answers were made available to all.

Sean - some of the points you raise relate to the initial release of 500 plots in October 2006. These were fully sold out some months ago, and a subsequent release of 100 smaller plots towards the rear of the development was made in November. These plots come with an insurance bond attached guaranteeing the deposits of investors until such time as definitive planning is confirmed - which may be as far as two years away (There is also a guaranteed buy-back attached). Investors on the original release have only paid part of the purchase price at present with further stage payments due on outline planning and definitive planning stages. Should approval be denied at either stage, MC Consulting will sell the total 11.000.000 m2 as rural land and have sufficient funds to fully repay all their investors. The land cannot be subdivided into individual plots until definitive planning is approved, and therefore it is impossible that investors will be left with a piece of land with which they "can do nothing".

The bank guarantee that was originally an option on the first release is not applicable to the current plots on offer. However, it covered the investors deposits until such time as outline planning was awarded. Thereafter, the land will have appreciated in value due to the uplift in status (from rural to urban) and should MC Consulting fail to get full planning permission at this stage, the land will be sold as above, with a full refund offered to investors.

The post in which I quote the possibility of there being a further 3.000 plots released (15th May 2007) was, at the time, a possibility. Subsequent events during the presentation stages to the town hall have decreed that there will be a lower density on the resort than originally forecast. In all there are 600 plots released, of which the original 500 will have the "1-in-10" resale (not buy-back) option after outline planning, based on a) the order in which the plots were reserved, and b) the willingness of the investors to resell their plot(s) at this stage rather than wait until definitive planning has been awarded. The remaining 100 plots have a guaranteed buy-back option when definitive planning is approved - these must be the ones you are looking at presently. In total 562 of the 600 plots have now been reserved.

I am not an expert on the Ley del Suelo, however I can shed a little light on the law, its rulings and its possible interpretation. The law was originally drafted in 1956 to preserve agricultural land. Its current amendments are to protect the environment from over development, and JDLR has conducted environmental studies to back up its application as well as introducing some very "green" initiatives in its construction. Furthermore, the law allows construction on land that is intended for residential tourism or where an existing building is in place. The plans for JDLR include restoring the old vineyard and cortigo and creating a winemaking museum on the site as well as several social projects for the residents of Almansa and residential accommodation. In my opinion (and I have to point out here that I do not work for MC Consulting, Property Showrooms or IPIN any longer) the developers would have not continued to allocate resources to this project when they have other, more straightforward projects on which they could concentrate, if they felt that the complex was not going to receive the first stage of planning permission - let alone the permission for the rest of the project.

Irrespective of the outcome, as I have mentioned above, the investors on the current release are guaranteed their money back by way of an insurance bond, and those who invested previously will have guarantees in place, either by Banco Guipozacoano or by the subsequent sale of the land.

As a final note, the outline planning is hoped to be in place by the end of May this year. Thereafter, any plots remaining on the current release will be withdrawn and all future marketing will concentrate on the resale of the plots from phase 1 where the investors wish to sell and pre-licence construction projects.

I hope this brings everybody up to speed on the project and if there are any further (genuine) comments or questions, please post them here.

Have a good night

Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks very much for your above post. I do appreciate the time and effort you have taken to reply, especially considering you no longer work for anyone attached to the development.

The development was only recently presented to me and in the process of doing a little research I came across this thread. Obviously the nature of a public forum is that it will lend itself to a lot of comments and opinions from as you put it the "uninformed". However as a public forum I surpose opinion and information is what it is all about. IMO there have certainly been some disingenuious posts and posters will obvious personal motives aside fom anything to do with the development on this thread.

Although also numerous posters who have had genuine concerns and have raised very valid points, including people who have already invested.

I do find it strange that there maybe hasn't been a difinate post from agents or developer considering there are obviously people who have invested in the project on this thread. Or at least a post directing people to a person who can answer genuine concerns or questions or indeed looking for more information(especially considering this thread is ongoing as long as it is).

Again thanks for the time taken to reply. You have answered some questions for me and raised 1 or 2 more, which I will bring directly to M+C.

Thanks

Sean

rowlandsbb · #**195** 28-03-2008, 12:24 PM

Has not this thread told you everything you need to know!!
There has been a lot of bad press about Spain and most of the problems have arisen where people have bought ' on a hope and a prayer' that planning permits will be granted ' at some time in the future'
In the current economic climate in Spain EU and World and in particular with the government getting very difficult about changing rustic land to urban . it is all a touch' risky'!!!.....to much for my money which I can invest elswhere and still get a good return and be safe
Paying money to anyone on the hope of getting planning is just ' one great big risk' even more so where there seems to be problems and changes over bank guarantees for your money!!!
Clearly,if 'everything' works out in a few years time, then great but 'hope you are a person who enjoys a punt'!!....the odds may be better on the FAP in the National

SeanY · #**196** 28-03-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowlandsbb

Has not this thread told you everything you need to know!!
There has been a lot of bad press about Spain and most of the problems have arisen where people have bought ' on a hope and a prayer' that planning permits will be granted ' at some time in the future'
In the current economic climate in Spain EU and World and in particular with the government getting very difficult about changing rustic land to urban . it is all a touch' risky'!!!.....to much for my money which I can invest elswhere and still get a good return and be safe.Paying money to anyone on the hope of getting planning is just ' one great big risk' even more so where there seems to be problems and changes over bank guarantees for your money!!!
Clearly,if 'everything' works out in a few years time, then great but 'hope you are a person who enjoys a punt'!!....the odds may be better on the FAP in the National

All investments come with risk and usually the higher the risk the higher reward, as long as people are fully aware of what they are getting into.

However this thread is not about debating the nature of risk association it is about the development in question. And it has certainly not come close to answering all I need to know to make a fully informed decison on a higher risk investment in fact if anything it has raised more questions for me. Which is great because in finding answers to these questions I will be abl to make a better decision.
I believe Andy has answed the question regarding the bank guarantee. So I don't see any "problems" here.

michaelbush · #**197** 28-03-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanY

All investments come with risk and usually the higher the risk the higher reward, as long as people are fully aware of what they are getting into.

However this thread is not about debating the nature of risk association it is about the development in question. And it has certainly not come close to answering all I need to know to make a fully informed decison on a higher risk investment in fact if anything it has raised more questions for me. Which is great because in finding answers to these questions I will be abl to make a better decision.
I believe Andy has answed the question regarding the bank guarantee. So I don't see any "problems" here.

There are plenty of "mug punters" who will not heed the warning signs or advice of others, but only see the "high promised profits", and think they have got a get rich quick product. The internet is not controlled properly to prevent wild claims being made, so those that choose to ignore common sense deserve to get burned!

harveyd · #**198** 30-03-2008, 09:29 AM

Michael Bush ... you're noo in town I see ... a man with strong opinions ... based on ... ??? Or just good ol' professional envy. I suggest you talk directly to M&C and get the facts from the horse's mouth ... no-one needs to rely on Internet anything ... which I'm sure that as a supposed professional yourself you would know. I wonder how many of your clients, if indeed you have any, could be termed "mug punters" ... ?

michaelbush · #**199** 30-03-2008, 02:26 PM

Harvey D
Of course you do not know me, or my clients, and there is certainly nothing in this debate that makes me come anywhere near envy! As other rational people have concurred, if you feel comfortable in taking this sort of gamble, then while I wish you luck, my opinion is that the risk is far too great for me and I would never offer this to my clients as an "investment". There are far more opportunities, even in, or because of, the depressed market, that are much less risky. I do not gamble with clients money, and none of my clients could be classed as "mug punters". But then the profile of my clients is somewhat different to the many people suckered in by greed, to risky deals. There is no point in my speaking to M&C as the deal is of no interest, but I have read enough about the product to take that informed decision. Those who prefer to be blinkered.............Good Luck, I hope it all goes the way you want, I prefer to invest in safer products, my money was hard earned, and I am not a gambler.

harveyd · #**200** 30-03-2008, 09:41 PM

"Those who prefer to be blinkered ..." Hahahaha!! What a great sense of humour you have: a man who prefers not to be confused by the facts, firsthand from the horse's mouth (M&C) but feels it is better to go by third-hand accounts ! Hilarious ! By the way, I have looked at your website and frankly it is a mess: amateurish in the extreme. You seem to think that Brazil is a much safer bet than a project in Spain complete with a money-back bonded guarantee. Each to his own, eh Michael. But word of advice: do be more careful who you go accusing of being the mug punter in future.