Ok we wait and see. Good luck. I hope you are right. But in my heart i think this is not a good deal. Good luck I wish you luck. regards Darren[/quote]

Yes, well I am going to have to wait and see as I already purchased a plot of land. Sales seem to be going very well and most investors seem to be wanting to keep/build then hold for the long term.

Hello all,

Australian investor- Iwent on an inspection trip for a couple of days to see Jardin Des Los Reyes about 6/8 weeks ago and took my hubbie with me!

MC- The people in charge of the development put us up in a hotel in Alicante, gave us a presentation and took us to the site and the local town of Albacete, Almansa!

The offer seems to good to be true at first but you then really need to look at whats happening in spains economy to determine what lies ahead.

We chose not to go ahead in the end although we initially reserved a plot of land before we went on the inspection trip!

The site was beautiful, but no different to any other piece of land in spain, also its practically in the middle of no-where and about 45mins from alicante!

The reasons we chose not to persue it is because of the uncertainties of the spanish economy for the future!
Spain is going into serious decline because of: Over supply of property, over hyped prices, land and government corruption issues and with all the new emerging cheaper and more attractive property markets in other countries that are now available!
People are seriously struggling to sell property and land at the moment because the economy is far from doing as well as it was before!
Also I am half spanish and still have relatives in spain who have also advised me to steer clear because of the issues over there-so it takes alot for me to admit these issues, but they are there and are only going to get alot worse, Im afraid!!!

The package they offer at the price sounds great....BUT You have to take into consideration seriously what your exit strategy is going to be!
As I know they give you estimated time frames for certain stages of planning etc-but realistically youll be sitting on land for at least 4-5 years before they even start clearing the land or see a single builder on site!! And thats provided they get the planning consents!!

We had planned to hold on until next year or 2009 when they presumed the outlined planning consent would come through-then try and sell on!
They were offering a re-sale programme but there is a waiting order depending on what no 1-500 and would only buy back the plot from you in numerical order and only would buy back 1 plot at a time for every other 9 properties they sold!! -so you could be waiting ages, even years for your plot to sell or NOT sell at all because of the state of the sales market in spain!

The reasons they are marketing the development like this is because the government have put bans and laws into place and effect now to stop developers buying up big plots of land for these types of developments- as the market is flooded with them!
Because they are selling off plots individually they will register the land under the individual buyers- its complicated but developers are finding loop holes to be able to do this!
Also the land will be registered under the plot owners names so if the development doesnt get the approval- then your left with a piece of land along with 499 others, that you cant do anything with!
If you then want your money back instead of the land then you have to go to court and put an embargo on the land then the government will try to sell it off for you- but this could take YEARS!! And theres no guarentee anyone will buy it back off you-if plannings been refused already!

We had concerns regarding selling on-as it looked highly unlikely we would be ABLE to re-sell it on and be left with it and have to go through with the building a villa satge on detailed planning stage-which we could not and did not want to do!
Depending or your exit strategy and available funds, be prepared not to be able to sell in time or at all and have to go ahead and build a villa and sit on it in the hope you will be able to re-sell it one day or keep it for yourself!
Also if once completed you are relying on rental income then be careful- as you may not achieve good rental income!!

Also there is a development in the area that is selling off plan just up the road from JDLR called TORREGRANDE GOLF and we saw the office for it in town when we drove through!

These were our thoughts and reservations on the development at the end of the day-just thought Id let you know from 1st hand experience after looking in depth at it and having been there etc!!!

Something told me that it didnt quite feel right or add up and I wasnt confident in the future of the development at the end of the day- but I suggest you go out there and see for yourself!!

Sorry I could carry on forever, but if you need any more info Ill try and help!!

Take care, good luck with your decisions!!

See ya D

Hi all,

SORRY -There was a few things I forgot on my previous post aswell!

I questioned in depth MC about the bankers guarentee and if you chose not to take it out then they reduced the price of the plot by 5.000 euros to entice people into not taking it in the first place!
And also the bank guarentee only applies between your first reservation and your signinh of contract and first stage payment!
Once you have signed the contract and paid the first installment they will register the plot in your name!!
Once this has happened and the plot is registered in your name the BANK GUARENTEE NO longer EXISTS-So you are on your own once you sign the contract basically- which we wer'nt comfortable with!

Also touching on another point someone previously mentioned about the bank also not being a big reputable bank!
Also MC and property showrooms are both based in marbella and seem to be extremely close...so be wary!
And also I didnt like the fact that the addresses given on MCs business cards and contacts seemed to be a hotel address!
Someone mentioned earlier about them being clever...!
Me and the hubbie worked out that 500x 20k sitting in a bank for 2-3years would be a HUGE AMMOUNT OF INTEREST GAINED by the developers even if planning doesnt go ahead and they return your money back to you like they promised!

I have nothing against MC or property showrooms as they have been great and MC have been really friendly and helpful I have no bones with them personally at all- but look at the facts and options thats all Im saying???

At the end of the day good luck with it, and hopefully it will prove me completely wrong and I will be EATING MY WORDS and kicking my self for not going ahead and making lots of money like theyve promised it will!!

Take care,
See ya D

Hi Darren, Dee Dee, Sam and everybody else on this thread. I´ve been very interested in some of the points you have raised - most of which are justifiable concerns. (I work for Property Showrooms - not going to try and hide that) One of the reasons that this project has the potential to be very lucrative is that the client has the opportunity to benefit from the uplift in land status and development gain - irrespective of capital growth and the Spanish housing market (and Darren is in a better place geographically to determine the demand in the area). One extremely important point made by Dee Dee was the exit strategy. MC Consulting have committed to selling 1 in 10 of plots already reserved by clients after outline planning permission, and with a further 3.000 plots to be released, there is ample opportunity for this to occur (again, according to the marketing/demand). When considering the overpriced or overcrowded complexes of Polaris, Jumilla or Frondosa, the end product is very attractively priced - and should appeal to locals and ex-pats alike (and I think there is a limited market for commuters to Madrid Darren - wish I could underline certain words!). If the market is not strong enough to support the resale programme (and remember, there should be 3-4 years in which to do it) our clients will have to go to completion - but that is a risk that everybody is aware of when they go through reservation (and should be advised of by their solicitor before signing contracts).

The concerns about MC spending or running off with all the money are a bit unfair. The company has put a lot of money and resources into identifying an investment opportunity, organising seminars and training others (me!) on the product. Should they suprise us, they can´t take the land with them and , at the point before outline planning, a maximum of 500 investors will have each paid (up to) 35.000 Euros. 11.000.000 m2 of agriculural land at half the going rate would generate in excess of 30.000.000 Euros - and if you divide that by 500, each client would walk away with a minimum profit of 25.000 Euros. In fact, the worst possible scenario is that MC do not get planning permission by the end of 2009, and (contractually) have to refund all monies paid. Sure, they will have used some of the deposits for furthering the planning application and marketing, but they still own over 2000 acres of land from which they could generate enough capital to facilitate the refunds.

The bank guarantees were initially in place to protect the early investors whilst the 200+ parcels of land which were individually registered were being re-registered into one (very large) plot. Now that this is in the process of being done and plans to present the project to the town hall are nearly complete,the need for a bank guarantee is obselete. If you are thinking (Dee Dee) of the type of guarantee that a developer gives during construction - then this is entirely different. I too, could go on for ever about this, but I manage to bore myself!

Different investments suit different investors. This one is not for everyone, but should (underlined) the client get in early enough, and should (underlined again) the development go through as planned, then there is the potential for a significant ROI that is not now seen in Spain, and will only be seen "overseas" in more undeveloped markets with no safety net. I don´t believe Dee Dee is wrong from withdrawing from his/her reservation, nor that Darren is wrong for raising concerns (and at least he justifies them rather than just pour scorn). This type of investment is unique and the timings will not suit everyone as well as the elements of doubt aforementioned in this thread. I do believe that it is still not too late to get involved in this project and would ask anybody still considering it to weigh up the possible profit against the time involved to realise the proceeds (although the longer you leave it, the further down the list you are) and those issues raised above.

Darren - if you want to visit the site and meet with guys behind it, give me a call and I´ll see what I can organise. It may not change your mind, but would possibly give you a new perspective on the investment opportunity.

Regards,

Andy

Hi all,

Andy- I have clearly only tried to relay the information that I had received from MC and Property showrooms on the development!
I thought I would share the info from my first hand experience from spending two days questioning all who was there when I went on the inspection trip as I left no stones un-turned and questioned every possible outcome!

If the SCORN statement was aimed at myself then you are wrong as I ve stated that I had no issues with the people surrounding this development because they were all very welcoming towards us!

At the end of the day I have only LISTED FACTS not fiction on the issues instead of only listening to salespitch persuasion!

This investment is a case of HIGH RISK+HIGH RETURNS! But the pros and cons need to be carefully considered as it can go either way!

Like you said this investment is for the BRAVE and is not everyones cup of tea, but equally the investors need to ensure that they can AFFORD to take this big a risk and stake their money on it only if they can AFFORD to do it and not rely on being able to re-sell it for a profit at any given point!

If you have the spare money in the bank , ready to go, and dont depend on the money for other things and can sit on it for 2years or more and worst case scenario-loose the money or more then by all means take the risk!

Personally I chose not to take a P**S in the wind while it was blowing strongly in the other direction! But... thats just me!

Dont want to see any fellow investors get SCORNED or BURNED here-thats all!

Also what was the interest for two years again....?? About £1 MILLION ISNT IT...?? 500K A YEAR! Im sure that this much definately hasnt been spent on marketing and advertising yet- no where near!!

Also wasnt the planning applications supposed to be submitted in end of march/beginning of April like they had said?

Also are clients still be pressurised into using Hynie...the developers close friend and spanish lawyer...? Nice guy but definately not INDEPENDANT!

All the best,

See ya D

P.S- TO all considering best wishes, just make sure you do your OWN homework aswell, dont listen to everything your told and be comfortable and confident with your decision? Otherwise if your not then youll spend years worrying about it and thats not good for your health-trust me!!
Go on gut instinct as its always right, dont be pressurised or swayed by nice people who want your money, as people are always nice when they want your money!

Hi Dee Dee,

I am really sorry that you interpreted my comments about scorn as being directed at you. This was not the intention, and merely a reference to some of the other threads that I have witnessed on this site.

Your comments were genuine and I tried to respond to them in a way that provoked thought and debate without wishing to cause offence and belittle anybodys investment decision. My post was intended to inform rather than "sell" and reviewing it again, I think I mostly achieved my goal.

Again, please accept my apologies - maybe I was a little too enthusiastic, but no offence was intended to anybody.

Thankls,

Andy

Hello Andy,

Thankyou for the response- I appreciate it!

No offence intended either!

I really do honestly hope all goes well for you guys at the end of the day, its just ashame I couldnt share your full optimism on the out come of the development!

I understand how you are trying to market the development and you all seem quite passionate about it which is great!

But it just wasnt my cup of tea at the end of the day OR maybe I just wasnt brave enough to take a HUGE leap of faith in the end aswell!!

Take care -D

Hi DeeDee,

I must thank you for the information and personal opinion.

What is the address BTW?

Maybe Andy can clarify?

Cheers

MC Consulting,
Local 6,
NH Alanda,
Ctra N340,
Km 176,
Marbella 29600

NH Alanda is a hotel, but MC Consulting (and a number of other businesses) occupy offices in a commercial business complex on the site.

Andy

Hi all,

AusInv- No problem glad I could shed a bit more light on the issues!
It is/was not my intention to come and distrurb or disrupt this forum at all, but just to give you better knowledge and information that I know on it already!

But would recommend you go, look and see for yourself if you get the chance too!

Take care,

See ya D

P.S- If you want any other info, let me know! Ill see if I can help!