The Overseas Property Investment Forum

rowlandsbb · #**231** 10-05-2008, 06:00 PM

Read it!
If you write an article on Spanish property and want it read now , then you have to look for the negatives
Even in this article there are positives
PW are not selling ' country Spain' but a leisure resort......off plan to flip are dealers and should be able to look after themselves, if not they should not have 'become a dealer' !!
A lot of happy owners on PW...same applies to other developments....but some not so happy
Applies in every property market......in Times this week read about buy to let & flip flats on Leeds and elsewhere!!!
The point is that PW buyers are in the main 'life style buyers' and they are enjoying it.....exchange rate, dead property market in all EU does not matter as to them life style use is important and long term they expect to be OK
Better than buying a caravan circa £94 k in UK !......Time Share!!....Quarter Share!! Condo Investment.......all of which are bought for life styel reasons!!!

morata · #**232** 11-05-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatch

The point of an english notice board like this is to make your point in English.
Which was my point to you.
Or maybe you didnt understand?
Idiot.

Well hatch...where on this web have you read that post must be only in English?....however you are understanding all my post otherwise you wouldn´t be answering them...possibly because I am writing them in English...you copy that?
Again if you didn´t understand it, I made my point a valid point...simply I didn´t bother to translate it...nonetheless anybody thinking on investing in J dl R or other development WITH NOT PLANNING APROVAL YET will find that information usefull, as far as they seek legal advise for a 2nd opinion. That´s my whole point that might not be suitable for you but it will be for others.And as far as I will help a single one person it will be worth.

So please hatch act,think and write as your age (I presume you are over 18) and stop acting, thinking and writing as your shoe number.
Hatch C U Next Time

hatch · #**233** 13-05-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morata

Well hatch...where on this web have you read that post must be only in English?....however you are understanding all my post otherwise you wouldn´t be answering them...possibly because I am writing them in English...you copy that?
Again if you didn´t understand it, I made my point a valid point...simply I didn´t bother to translate it...nonetheless anybody thinking on investing in J dl R or other development WITH NOT PLANNING APROVAL YET will find that information usefull, as far as they seek legal advise for a 2nd opinion. That´s my whole point that might not be suitable for you but it will be for others.And as far as I will help a single one person it will be worth.

So please hatch act,think and write as your age (I presume you are over 18) and stop acting, thinking and writing as your shoe number.
Hatch C U Next Time

I have no problem with you introducing a topic for discussion.
I do have a problem with you expecting it to have any real value if it is not translated.
Post an English translation and we can talk rationally.

In the meantime, I put this to you-

What if, for arguments sake, JDLR had obtained sufficient planning approval for it to still be passed prior to any new legislation biting.

What if, for arguments sake, it actually proved to be one of the best, low density, environmentally friendly developments in Spain, unlike the Polaris World ghettos?

What if, for arguments sake, when full planning has been agreed and building starts in around 3 years time- as projected by the developers- the market has recovered and there is suddenly a shortage of real lifestyle properties in working communities as a result of the changes in that legislation?

Seems like investors might be on to a real winner to me.

rowlandsbb · #**234** 14-05-2008, 09:42 AM

Is anyone serious about investing in a Spanish development which does not have planning permission in the middle of a ' credit crunch'????????

Now getting in on the ground floor at the bottom of the market is one thing , if you have all the permits, but something like this is ' a bet at long odds on an outsider when the fav is odds on!!!!

yes buy in Spain for life style reasons with a touch of investment potential in 2008, as you will get a very good deal....but it has to be at the starting gate not still in the stable!!!

Damian George · #**235** 14-05-2008, 11:09 AM

Brian,

It couldnt agree more! As i said in this post

http://www.totallyproperty.com/buyin...ing-spain.html

Keep an eye on Spain. Over 40,000 estate agents have already shut their
doors, according to the realtors federation. There are 600,000 unsold homes
on the market. Unemployment is rising at a rate of 90,000 a month
(seasonally adjusted). UBS says country has built up cross-border
liabilities of $362bn, much of it owed to German and French banks, and is
facing a foreign "funding freeze".

hatch · #**236** 14-05-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowlandsbb

Is anyone serious about investing in a Spanish development which does not have planning permission in the middle of a ' credit crunch'????????

Now getting in on the ground floor at the bottom of the market is one thing , if you have all the permits, but something like this is ' a bet at long odds on an outsider when the fav is odds on!!!!

yes buy in Spain for life style reasons with a touch of investment potential in 2008, as you will get a very good deal....but it has to be at the starting gate not still in the stable!!!

thats my point.

all we need to know is whether JDLR boarded the planning boat before they pulled up the gangplank.....

andyk2 · #**237** 15-05-2008, 10:53 AM

Okay guys - I can´t read anymore of this tosh without replying.

Damian George - you have no foresight about what is going to happen to the international market in the future (or are you an alien with intergalatic powers of time travel?). As far as the majority of rational people are concerned, two things will happen:-

"Investors" will get sick of being conned into buying plots of grass in Brazil, fabricated resorts in Morocco and investment certanties in outer Transalvania and return to an assured and regulated marketplace - ie Spain. Some investors were incorrectly advised by greedy sales reps in 2004, but would you buy a north facing apartment on the back of a mountain because somebody in a BMW told you to? You read this post in two years and your comments (in my opinion) will come back to haunt you.

4 million real estate agents that cant tell the truth will go out of business. The internet has assured that there is a fair market place for real estate agents and clients to relate the facts. I feel sorry for fans of Peterborough United and wonder where their funding will come from in the next few years, but that´s what happens when you tell porkies.

Brian Rowlands with all those letters after your name - you advocate timeshare on your web site. Bang goes your credibility.

Would either of you advise your clients against investing in a project with the potential for major capital growth, with bank guarantees, with a guaranteed return should you wish to duck out in two years, with a reputable and solid developer with a track record - or could you not get agency agreements to sell the project!????!

I will pretend to be fascinated by your replies.

Have a nice day

Andy

rowlandsbb · #**238** 15-05-2008, 11:06 AM

I have never been a fan of time share nor 1/4 share but I do know many people who have bought for life style reasons and really enjoy them.......not as an investment but for pleasure .....same reason people buy caravans which can cost up to £500,000! or boats
I think the web site you have looked at was a mini site connected to an MLS which I was using for a while pending my own web site....which will be live circa end of May
Push this development as much as you like and no doubt some people do like a gamble...good luck to them!
Hope they do not get' credit crunched'

morata · #**239** 17-05-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatch

I have no problem with you introducing a topic for discussion.
I do have a problem with you expecting it to have any real value if it is not translated.
Post an English translation and we can talk rationally.

In the meantime, I put this to you-

What if, for arguments sake, JDLR had obtained sufficient planning approval for it to still be passed prior to any new legislation biting.

What if, for arguments sake, it actually proved to be one of the best, low density, environmentally friendly developments in Spain, unlike the Polaris World ghettos?

What if, for arguments sake, when full planning has been agreed and building starts in around 3 years time- as projected by the developers- the market has recovered and there is suddenly a shortage of real lifestyle properties in working communities as a result of the changes in that legislation?

Seems like investors might be on to a real winner to me.

HATCH you can´t expect me to translate a document that is got 36 pages and is full of thick law language...that would be a headache, that´s why I just copied the reply from those people and if anyone is interested they can print it and consult their lawyers before making a decision. So the text in fact it´s got its real value as I said consult your lawyer. And you can post his comments.
Regarding JDLR don´t get me wrong...the concept is simply brilliant and it´s the type of projects that authorities should have enforced in Spain over the last decade, probably now we wouldn´t be in the middle of a buble burst if land, developments and sales of real estate would have taken a most sustainable pace. But greed is to appealing.
MC Consulting have been wise enough to come up with a nice project that´s got nothing to do with the likes of PW or other golf resorts in an area where the land is cheap and local authorities wellcome opened-arms any investment to boost their municipality economy and create jobs and still is not far from the beach and other more popular turistic areas. So the idea is well planned and of great added value in terms of sustainability and lifestyle.
But my only remark is that from the time the started to roll the ball till now things have drastically changed in Spain and I am not talking about the credit crunch, the real estate crisis or other topics is simply the legal frame and something that 5years ago would have had the green light strait away not I have serious doubts for it to became a tangible reality, unless the local authorities manage to pull any strings.

law · #**240** 17-05-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morata

Hi everyone,
As I informed in my last posts on pages 15 and 16 I was concerned about the new changes on the Spanish land law (ley del suelo). I have attached my enquire to the legal department of the Spanish OCU (Organización de Consumidores y Usuarios//Users and Consumers Organization). Please anyone considering to invest in J dl R must read this and consult their lawyer to reasure that as I mentioned J dl R most likely will never be granted Planning Permission if it doesn´t have it by now (which doesnt as a matter of fact).
This is due to new changes affecting all urban developments nationwide and not nly J dl R. I know this will be heavily critizise by harveyd but unfortunatelly it´s to late for him as he put his money down. Read my previous post if you want to know more

-----------Enviado: 18/04/2008 0:27:32 -------------

Hola a todos,

Referente a las últimas modificaciones de la ley del suelo de abril 07. Tengo entendido que de ahora en adelante, en cada plan de actuación urbanistico, se han de tener en cuenta los siguientes factores:

-el 30% del suelo ha de ser reservado para Viviendas de Protección.

-no se aceptarán actuaciones urbansiticas que dupliquen la población del municipio en cuestion.

-el suelo forestal quemado permanecerá como rustico en los prox. 30años, no pudiendose así recalificar para evitar especulaciones.

-la ejecuccion de campos de golf no sera un instrumento para construir miles de viviendas, sólo se podrá equipar con terciario (hoteles y comercial).

¿es esto así?...si es cierto, es aplicable a todos aquellos nuevos PGOU a partir de la ley....

gracias

THEIR REPLY

Muy Sr. nuestro:.

Acusamos recibo de su atento escrito, al cual nos disponemos dar respuesta.

Sobre el tema que nos consulta, sobre la repercusión de la ley del suelo últimamente publicada, le indicamos que como todo texto legal hay que verlo en su conjunto y no deteniendonos en articulos concretos, pues se la lectura de las Disposiciones que le adjunto se ve cuando entra en vigor la Ley el 1 de Julio 2007 y el plazo de un año que tiene la Administración para adecuar la norma especifica.

Por lo tanto si nada se publica con posterioridad lo previsto en esta norma sera vinculante, obligando a los Ayuntamientos que reformen sus PGOU si hay normas encontradas, ya que es imperativa la ley 8/2007, salvo que expresamente no se vea afectada por ella.

Sin otro particular, agradeciendo la confianza que nos deposita, aprovechamos la ocasión para enviarle un cordial saludo

Atentamente

Fdo: Ana MELERO
ASESORIA JURIDICA DE OCU

Ley 8/2007, de 28 de mayo, de suelo

Disposición Derogatoria Única. Derogación normativa

Quedan derogados a la entrada en vigor de esta Ley:
a) La Ley 6/1998, de 13 de abril, de Régimen del Suelo y Valoraciones.
b) El Art. 133, el apartado 1 del Art. 134, el apartado 1 del Art. 243, el Art. 276, el apartado 1 del Art. 280 y los Arts. 287, 288 y 289 del Texto Refundido de la Ley sobre Régimen del Suelo y Ordenación Urbana aprobado por Real Decreto Legislativo 1/1992, de 26 de junio.
c) Los Arts. 38 y 39 de la Ley de Expropiación Forzosa de 16 de diciembre de 1954.
d) Cuantas otras disposiciones de igual o inferior rango se opongan a lo dispuesto en esta Ley.

Disposición Final Primera. Carácter del contenido dispositivo de esta Ley
Declarada la admisión a trámite de rec. inconstucionalidad por ini Prov. de 25 septiembre 2007
apa.1 Declarada la admisión a trámite de rec. inconstucionalidad por ini Prov. de 25 septiembre 2007

1. Tienen el carácter de condiciones básicas de la igualdad en el ejercicio de los derechos y el cumplimiento de los correspondientes deberes constitucionales y, en su caso, de bases del régimen de las Administraciones Públicas, de la planificación general de la actividad económica y de protección del medio ambiente, dictadas en ejercicio de las competencias reservadas al legislador general en el Art. 149.1.1ª, 13ª, 18ª y 23ª de la Constitución, los Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, apartados 1, 2, 3 y 5, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 31, apartado 3, las disposiciones adicionales primera y sexta, apartados 1 y 2, y las disposiciones transitorias primera, segunda y cuarta.
2. Los Arts. 33 y 34, apartados 1 y 2, tienen el carácter de bases de la planificación general de la actividad económica dictadas en ejercicio de la competencia reservada al legislador estatal en el Art. 149. 1. 13ª de la Constitución, sin perjuicio de las competencias exclusivas sobre suelo y urbanismo que tengan atribuidas las Comunidades Autónomas.
3. Tienen el carácter de disposiciones establecidas en ejercicio de la competencia reservada al legislador estatal por el Art. 149.1.4ª, 8ª y 18ª sobre defensa, legislación civil, expropiación forzosa y sistema de responsabilidad de las Administraciones Públicas, los Arts. 11, apartados 4, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, apartados 1 y 2, 32, 34, apartados 3 y 4, 35 y 36, las disposiciones adicionales segunda, quinta, sexta, apartado 3, y séptima y la disposición transitoria tercera.
4. El contenido normativo íntegro de esta Ley es de aplicación directa en los territorios de las Ciudades de Ceuta y Melilla, con las siguientes precisiones:
a) La potestad que la letra b) del Art. 10 reconoce a la Ley para reducir el porcentaje de reserva de vivienda sometida a algún régimen de protección pública y la de determinar los posibles destinos del patrimonio público del suelo , de entre los previstos en el apartado 1 del Art. 34, podrán ser ejercidas directamente en el plan general.
b) El porcentaje a que se refiere la letra b) del apartado 1 del Art. 16 será el del quince por ciento, que el plan general podrá incrementar motivada y proporcionadamente hasta el veinte por ciento en las actuaciones o ámbitos en los que el valor de los solares resultantes o de su incremento, en su caso, sea sensiblemente superior al medio de los incluidos en su misma clase de suelo .
5. Lo dispuesto en esta Ley se aplicará sin perjuicio de los regímenes civiles, forales o especiales, allí donde existen.

Disposición Final Segunda. Delegación legislativa

Se delega en el Gobierno, por un año a contar desde la entrada en vigor de esta Ley, la potestad de dictar un Real Decreto Legislativo que refunda el texto de ésta y los preceptos que quedan vigentes del Real Decreto Legislativo 1/1992, de 26 de junio, por el que se aprueba el Texto Refundido de la Ley sobre Régimen del Suelo y Ordenación Urbana, debiendo aclararse, regularizarse y armonizarse la terminología y el contenido dispositivo de éste a los de esta Ley.

Disposición Final Tercera. Desarrollo

Se autoriza al Gobierno para proceder, en el marco de sus atribuciones, al desarrollo de esta Ley.

Disposición Final Cuarta. Entrada en vigor

Esta Ley entrará en vigor el día 1 de julio de 2007

Sorry I didnt translate it but your Spanish lawyer can explain you all the matters involving this bill which is already in use.
Regards from Rio de J

Hi Everyone,
As I informed in my last posts on pages 15 and 16 I was concerned about the new changes on the Spanish land law (law of the land). I have my enquire attached to the legal department of the Spanish OCU (Organization of Consumers and Users / / Users and Consumers Organization). Please anyone considering to invest in R J dl must read this and consult their lawyer to reasure that as I mentioned dl R J most likely will never be granted planning permission if it does not have it by now (which doesn't as a matter of fact ).
This is due to new changes affecting all urban developments nationwide and not nly J R. dl I know this will be heavily critizise by harveyd Unfortunatelly but it's to late for him as he put his money down. Read my previous post if you want to know more

----------- Envoy: 18/04/2008 0:27:32 -------------

Hello everyone,

Referring to the latest amendments to the law of the land April 07. I understand that from now on, every action plan urban, be taken into account the following factors:

- 30% of the land must be set aside for housing.

- urbansiticas not accept actions that duplicate the population of the municipality in question.

- burnt forest land remain as rustic in coming. 30años, and not being able to requalify in order to avoid speculation.

- ejecucción the golf course will not be an instrument to build thousands of homes, can only be equipped with tertiary (hotels and commercial).

How is this so? ... If true, applies to all those new PGOU from the law ....

thanks

The reply

Sir. ours:.

We acknowledge receipt of your letter attentive, to which we are responding.

The issue before us consultation on the impact of the law of the land recently published, it's like any piece of legislation should be seen as a whole and not to stop at specific articles, as they read the provisions attached to it is when the Act comes into force on July 1, 2007 and within a year that has the Administration to bring the rule specifies.

Therefore, if nothing is published later than expected in this rule shall be binding, forcing municipalities to reform their rules PGOU if there are found, since it is imperative law 8 / 2007, unless expressly is not affected by it.

Without another particular thanking us confidence that deposits, we take this occasion to send a cordial greeting

Sincerely

Fdo: Ana Melero
Jurídica de Asesoria OCU

Law 8 / 2007, May 28, soil

Sole revoking provision. Repeal legislation

Are hereby repealed to the entry into force of this Act:
a) The Law 6 / 1998, April 13, Regime Soil and Valuations.
b) Art. 133, paragraph 1 of Art. 134, paragraph 1 of Art. 243, Art. 276, paragraph 1 of Art. 280 and the Arts. 287, 288 and 289 of the revised Law on Land Regime and urban planning adopted by Royal Decree Law 1 / 1992 of June 26.
c) The Arts. 38 and 39 of the Act of eminent domain on December 16, 1954.
d) How many other provisions of equal or lower rank are opposed to the provisions of this Act.

Final First. Character content device of this Law
Declared the admissibility of rec. inconstucionalidad by INI Prov. of September 25, 2007
apa.1 declared the admissibility of rec. inconstucionalidad by INI Prov. of September 25, 2007

1. They have the character of basic conditions of equality in the exercise of rights and compliance with the relevant constitutional duties and, where appropriate, foundations of the regime of Public Administration, for the overall planning of economic activity and protection Environment, issued in exercise of the powers reserved to the legislature generally in art. 149.1.1 th, 13 th, 18 th and 23 th of the Constitution, Art. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, paragraphs 1, 2, 3 and 5, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 31, paragraph 3, the first additional provisions and sixth, paragraphs 1 and 2, and the transitional arrangements first, second and fourth.
2. The Arts. 33 and 34, paragraphs 1 and 2, have the character base for the overall planning of economic activity issued in exercise of jurisdiction reserved for the state legislature in art. 149. 1. 13 th of the Constitution, without prejudice to the exclusive jurisdiction on land and urban design have attributed the Autonomous Communities.
3. They have the character of provisions exercise of jurisdiction reserved for the state legislature by Art. 149.1.4 th, 8 th and 18 th on defense, civil law, eminent domain and accountability system of government, the Arts. 11, paragraphs 4, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, paragraphs 1 and 2, 32, 34, paragraphs 3 and 4, 35 and 36, the additional provisions second, fifth, sixth, paragraph 3, and seventh and third transitory provision.
4. The full normative content of this law is directly applicable in the occupied cities of Ceuta and Melilla, with the following details:
a) The power that the letter b) Art. 10 recognises the Act to reduce the percentage of reservation housing subject to a regime of protection of public and identify potential destinations of public assets of soil, between those provided in paragraph 1 of Art. 34, may be brought directly into the overall plan.
b) The percentage referred to the letter b) of paragraph 1 of Art. 16 will be the fifteen per cent, the overall plan may increase proportionately motivated and up to twenty percent in the proceedings or areas where the value of solar or its resulting increase, if any, is significantly higher in the middle those covered under the same kind of soil.
5. Nothing in this Act shall be without prejudice to the civilian regimes, provincial or special, where they exist.

Final Second. Legislative Delegation

It was delegated to the government for one year after the entry into force of this Law, the power to issue a Royal Decree to consolidate the text of this and the precepts that remain in force of Royal Decree Law 1 / 1992 of 26 June, which approves the revised text of the Law on Land Regime and urban planning, should clarify, regularized and harmonized terminology and content of this device to those of this Law.

Final Third. Development

It authorizes the government to proceed, within their powers to the development of this Law.

Final Fourth. Entry into force

This Act will come into force on July 1, 2007

Jardin de los Reyes Development in Spain - Page 24

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